Started by MrBogosity, February 05, 2012, 04:31:48 PM
Quote from: surhotchaperchlorome on February 05, 2012, 09:00:28 PMWho's Jonas Betzendahl?
QuoteI feel like if they made a movie about this agent, it would be deemed "brilliantly funny".On topic: This is pretty bad, but there really isn't any reason he should be persecuted for it.I mean, he was doing a drug bust. If you've been around for one, you know that people will try to get rid of stuff fast. And some have succeed. He was working to get it done as soon as possible. Hence, the chainsaw.I mean, he didn't kill anyone, the suspect WAS in the building and the lady was reimbursed.All in all, this is exaggerated a little. It's not brutality or anything, just a federal agent and his federal mistake.Also, I don't like how the lady says "For me it felt routine apology, it felt like just a regular, 'I'm sorry for the inconvenience. Here's the phone number for your landlord to get reimbursed for the door, have a good day.' And that's how I felt, like it was a smack in the face."WHAT?A smack in the face? But you found the look on their faces priceless earlier?She should be happy they even apologized. I've had worst happen in my neighborhood.
QuoteThat doesn't work in all situations. The fact of the matter is he did things in a textbook fashion (excluding entering with a chainsaw). He came in, immediately told her to stay on the ground and held position until the situation was resolved.What about if it he would've came in and accidentally shot the dog? Or if he tried to shoot the lock instead of chainsawing it? Things could've been much worse. The only bad thing here is the lost of a door. Which was reimbursed.It's not incompetence, it's an accident. UPS and FedEx has accidentally delivered things to my house that they mistaken because of a single letter in the address name. That doesn't make them incompetent, it just means they made a mistake.The suspect was literally next door. Incompetence is busting down someone's door on the other side of the city.The guy was human, he's allowed it. Even if he is FBI.Crime is crime. I hate it, but we've gotta be honest, it's a serious problem.Drug Dealing is a crime for two major reasons:1) It takes away legal tender in illegal trade. Nothing is taxed, therefore, that's money that America loses. It's unaccounted for and it's affecting the economy.2) Drugs ARE bad. No matter how good they make us feel, they have negative reinforcement. That's why they're usually sold at pharmacies with prescription. And not all drugs are green-light, like Marijuana. Some can cause huge problems for the environment, both long and short term.I think the "War on Drugs" is necessary, just that it shouldn't be made a HUGE priority with the other things going on. These agents went about things the right way, they just caught the wrong door.
QuoteNothing in the article suggests that she was even in the same room. All she heard was someone yelling and started crying for mom. It's not like she witnessed a double homicide. She was alarmed by loud noise. Like most kids.And that's my point. These things actually happen, but they didn't happen to her. So this is nowhere near the worst case scenario. I'm just saying that it's not something worth reporting. This is a journalist trying to use his writings to put the government at another fault for the accident of one man on the FBI. And the saddest part is that it's working. Take away the woman's smartass remarks and the empathizing that the writer is doing, it's just a wrong door.I did say UPS did this mutliple times, right? And they've made note of it.An agency is only as good as their people. And no one's perfect.Okay, let's allow people to misuse a product strictly intended to cure the sickly in cases where they need it. Let's also let this stuff be sold in neighborhoods where kids reside. Where, if they have enough money, they too can experience happiness through high. Dirty Needles, Side effects, Possibility of Death, I'm sure everyone who has ever brought these drugs from dealers knows what can happen, right? It's not victimless. That's like saying Drunk Driving is victimless. He decided to drink and drive, let him do what he wants, right? If you do these drugs, it will affect people around you. And these dealers know that. Why do you think most dealers avoid doing the drug themselves?Alcohol is easy to get? Sure, if some irresponsible 21-year old is stupid enough to go get it for some kids. Otherwise, your liver is well to handle consumption. Sure, you shouldn't drink in access, but it takes multiple servings of alcohol to cause a problem. You only need one sniff of cocaine of one injection of heroin and you're off licking a fire hydrant why indecently exposed.And they know the effects of alcohol, it's on every bottle. Same with cigarettes.But cigarettes doesn't affect you. Sure, smoking around people with slightly shorten their life, but it doesn't cause chemical imbalance in your body. You still have your senses and you're still conscious of what you're doing.I agree that prohibition doesn't work, but some things are prohibited for a reason. That reason is as always, Justice. You have the right to do something as long as you don't step on the rights of others. Drug users do that. Drugs cause you to do things you wouldn't normally do. If you saw the things you've done on cocaine, would you be able to say you approve?NO results? Kinda like how a lot of serial killers haven't ever been caught? Kinda like hackers haven't been found? Kinda like the number of arson increases?The point is, they've regulated. No, they haven't gotten drugs completely off the streets and they probably never will. But they're the only reason there isn't a dealer standing on every other corner in your neighborhood.But I digress, they War on Drugs is another matter. This was one agent busting through a door with a chainsaw. Whether or not this was the War or Drugs, he made a mistake and shouldn't be persecuted simply because he caught the wrong door. They apologized, paid for the door and went on their way.This woman just simply thinks that she deserves more attention for living next to a drug dealer. And this writer just wants to find a way to make the government look worse.
Quote from: D on February 06, 2012, 06:32:19 PMOh man, you should see the loon I'm debating with about the chainsaw story.
Quote from: MrBogosity on February 06, 2012, 06:40:57 PMDid he essentially say, "Yes, prohibition doesn't work, but it's still OK if there's a good reason for it"?
QuoteWar on Drugs = chainsaw through door. We got that part. And like I said, this is bad. But this isn't so bad that it should be considered a problem with the whole "War on Drugs" approach.It doesn't change the fact that this stuff is illegal either. Sure, you could use the argument of "legalizing one thing just puts focus on another", but at the end of the day, it's a rule that people are breaking. These agents didn't make the rules. Hell, they probably don't even agree with the rules. But they would do all in their power to enforce them. And that's what I'm saying.This wasn't a decreed attack by the higher-uppers on the middle class through terrorization and controlled threats, this was an agent assuming a lady was a drug smuggler and making sure things didn't escalate. And what does the lady do after they apologize and reimburse for the door? Does she thank them for clearing another drug dealer (one who lived next door) off the street? No, she makes snippy remarks about how he handled the situation, which was uniform.That's at least what I was focused on, this particular incident. I care less about the War on Drugs and I agree, it's a waste, but the fact is, they're doing their job and nothing more. GAZING into the original source can be a useful case for the future, but in this particular case, the fault was acknowledged and retained.
Quote from: shakleton42 on February 07, 2012, 10:49:10 AMOhai. That would be me. I found this "gem" a week or two ago when a blog I follow linked to it and mailed it to Shane since I thought it would fit nicely.And because I don't spend enough of my free time on the internet debating people I will never meet, I thought I just as well might register here. Nice podcast, I enjoyed it as always.