Militant Atheism? (From Fail Quotes)

[AnCap Dave]

"anyone else wishing to envoke the first; when acting as an agent of the state, one has no rights, only authorities. A citizen must only ask the question "is there anything that says I can't do this. A agent of the state must... ask "what authority says I can do this" and one should be able to trace that authority ultimately back to the U. S. Constitution.

As to religion, the Constitution is absolutely clear with regard to agents of the state and religion in both Article VI, Section III and Amendment I, the answer is absolutely not!"

While it is true that politicians aren't allowed to use tax dollars or their authority to prop up their religious beliefs, there is absolutely no rule that states that they cannot be religious or pray in public. I'm sick of atheists who think that freedom of expression only applies until they are offended.

[MrBogosity]

While it is true that politicians aren't allowed to use tax dollars or their authority to prop up their religious beliefs, there is absolutely no rule that states that they cannot be religious or pray in public. I'm sick of atheists who think that freedom of expression only applies until they are offended.

Actually, what he said sounds right to me. Note the clause, "when acting as an agent of the state." A Mayor, acting in his capacity as Mayor, cannot pray or lead others in prayer. But if he, completely on his own time, joins a prayer group, or even leads a prayer group, that's fine because he's acting on his own.

And when you think about it, it's no different from any other job: if you work in an office, you can't just stand on your desk whenever you want and start preaching. That's not what you're being paid to do. The contract says that, while you're on the clock, you're being paid to do this work. So the boss is free to reprimand or even fire you as a result without running afoul of your first amendment rights.

Same with Mayor or any other government position. These are NOT positions of privilege. They're jobs, and the people who hold these jobs are told specifically what it is they can do. Preaching, praying, etc. are prohibited by that employment contract.

[AnCap Dave]

Actually, what he said sounds right to me. Note the clause, "when acting as an agent of the state." A Mayor, acting in his capacity as Mayor, cannot pray or lead others in prayer. But if he, completely on his own time, joins a prayer group, or even leads a prayer group, that's fine because he's acting on his own.

And when you think about it, it's no different from any other job: if you work in an office, you can't just stand on your desk whenever you want and start preaching. That's not what you're being paid to do. The contract says that, while you're on the clock, you're being paid to do this work. So the boss is free to reprimand or even fire you as a result without running afoul of your first amendment rights.

Same with Mayor or any other government position. These are NOT positions of privilege. They're jobs, and the people who hold these jobs are told specifically what it is they can do. Preaching, praying, etc. are prohibited by that employment contract.

Dammit Shane! Can't a man complain about a militant movement in peace without good analogies getting involved!?

Seriously though, I find the problem being though that most atheists, at least the militant ones, tend to believe that politicians at any given point or time, on the clock or not, should have any connection to religion. The militant atheist movement is almost as bad as the fundamentalist Christian movement.

[MrBogosity]

Perhaps you can answer something I've been wondering for years: what exactly is a "militant atheist"? And it would really help if you could give specific examples and say why or how they are militant.

[AnCap Dave]

Perhaps you can answer something I've been wondering for years: what exactly is a "militant atheist"? And it would really help if you could give specific examples and say why or how they are militant.

Unfortunately, there are those who actually believe that religion should be completely outlawed. I've run into this more times than I'd like to count. As an atheist myself, I find this frame of mind completely embarrassing that people actually believe this. As the group of people who are the least trusted in the United States, it does a disservice to the rest of us sane people. Fortunately, most of these people have the mental capacity of an angsty 15 year old, but still, it is rather embarrassing.

I found this video on youtube. I really hope it is just an act of trolling.
[yt]E9vhpUptjGk[/yt]

[MrBogosity]

Okay, so this isn't anything that prominent atheists like Sam Harris or Richard Dawkins have said (IMO), and you always get extremists in any group. But since I think this is worthy of more discussion than it would get in Fail Quotes, I'm going to spawn this off as another thread.

[AnCap Dave]

Okay, so this isn't anything that prominent atheists like Sam Harris or Richard Dawkins have said (IMO), and you always get extremists in any group. But since I think this is worthy of more discussion than it would get in Fail Quotes, I'm going to spawn this off as another thread.

Yeah, this is nothing from sensible people. Militant atheists are like the super smarks of wrestling. You should know the ones I'm talking about. They go on any wrestling video ever and talk about how the Attitude Era is so amazing and John Cena ought to be killed. I find that most militant atheists are also basement dwellers.

[FSBlueApocalypse]

Militant atheists are the ones who you can just replace "Science", "Reason", "Rationality", with God and it sounds like an Evangelical is talking.

A buddy of mine and I went to a few "Free Thought Society" meetings awhile back and met quite a few of those kinds of people.

[MrBogosity]

It's just that I keep hearing the term applied to people like Dawkins, and I just don't see it.

[AnCap Dave]

It's just that I keep hearing the term applied to people like Dawkins, and I just don't see it.

Unfortunately, these people give the rest of us a bad name so unfortunately sane and sound people like Dawkins get lumped in with these mouth breathers.

[FSBlueApocalypse]

It's just that I keep hearing the term applied to people like Dawkins, and I just don't see it.

Hitchens maybe. But as for Dawkins, I think most Americans automatically assume an intelligent individual with a British accent is an arrogant asshole.

[MrBogosity]

I also don't think I'd use the term "militant." "Dogmatic" might be a better term. Until they start carrying guns and running into churches that is...

[Lord T Hawkeye]

I'm with Raymond Dundas when he said "This is what I hate about you new atheists.  You support an authoritarian, paternalistic nanny state and yet you bitch and complain that your rights are being violated because a nativity scene is put up in the city park come Christmas time"

[AnCap Dave]

I'm with Raymond Dundas when he said "This is what I hate about you new atheists.  You support an authoritarian, paternalistic nanny state and yet you bitch and complain that your rights are being violated because a nativity scene is put up in the city park come Christmas time"

THIS!

It reminds me a few years ago when this guy tried to stop a church from playing Christmas music. He claimed his rights were violated because he had to drive by the church and hear the music. Apparently it made him all tingly inside or something.

"If the bells happen to toll I have to roll the windows up in my car and then turn the music up as loud as it will go to not hear them. I'm an atheist,"

[MrBogosity]

I'm with Raymond Dundas when he said "This is what I hate about you new atheists.  You support an authoritarian, paternalistic nanny state and yet you bitch and complain that your rights are being violated because a nativity scene is put up in the city park come Christmas time"

I just posted this to my Facebook; we'll see what kind of responses it gets: "Question for those who oppose the Prayer Rally in Texas: How many of you have spent just as much time, energy, and resources opposing the increasing debt saddling our young people, the expensive and dangerously aggressive foreign policy, and the hideous and insane War on Drugs?"