The Bogosity Forum

The Show => Episode 2: Creationism => Topic started by: MrBogosity on February 19, 2009, 06:45:31 PM

Title: Online evolution demo
Post by: MrBogosity on February 19, 2009, 06:45:31 PM
Here's something I've been playing around with off and on for months, and I think it might be sort-of ready for prime time. It's a demonstration of how evolution is not random chance, by recreating Richard Hardison's program that Richard Dawkins demoed so many times.

Start with a phrase (by default, "To be or not to be"), and click "Start!" It will then start a race between a completely random "monkey" and one that uses mutation and natural selection. Unlike Hardison's algorithm, which simply kept the correct letters and changed the rest, I give the incorrect letters an 80% chance to mutate, and the correct letters a .5% chance of mutating (a deleterious mutation).

The monkey CAN win. If you put in a one-character fitness phrase, the monkey should win half the time. He wins sometimes with two characters, occasionally with three (only once in my experience), and of course the proper phrases are so long it'll never win. So, when creationists talk about these big long genes being so improbable to form by chance, lay this little gem on them. AGREE with them that it's practically impossible by chance, and show them how evolution is NOT chance, but works much, much better, evolving a phrase in a few seconds that would take greater than the lifetime of the universe to achieve randomly.

Here's the url: http://www.shanekillian.org/evolve/evolver.html

I call it the "Really Too Simple Evolver." The first reason is that this isn't a proper genetic algorithm; there's not an actual generation going on, just modifying the phrase. This is supposed to simulate a population, not an individual. The second is, of course, that evolution is not goal-oriented, and the third is that in the real world there may be many different ways of achieving fitness whereas in this simulation there's just one.

But it's enough to give you the idea.

Well, "what do you think, sirs?"
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Andy120290 on February 19, 2009, 09:09:31 PM
Is it supposed to say "WINNER!!!" if the random phrase does not match the fitness phrase?
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: MrBogosity on February 20, 2009, 06:30:50 AM
The monkey winning does not stop the simulation. It keeps going until the evolved phrase gets a result, and of course the monkey phrase has changed by that point.
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Tom S. Fox on February 20, 2009, 09:45:54 AM
Neat! But I don’t think the creationists will be impressed by that.
They are probably going to say: "See? SEE?! You need a designer!!!!11!!"
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Andy120290 on February 20, 2009, 12:50:49 PM
The monkey winning does not stop the simulation. It keeps going until the evolved phrase gets a result, and of course the monkey phrase has changed by that point.

Ahh, I see.

I think it is pretty neat. Now all we need to do is contact a real creationist so we laugh at their silly response to it. Probably not too different from Tom S. Fox's guess.
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: IceSage on February 22, 2009, 02:56:42 AM
OH NOES GUYS! CREATION WINS! IT'S A MIRACLE! TAKE A LOOK!


Word: God
Total number of generations: 70
Phrase length: 3
Total time at 86.74 generations per second: 0.807 seconds
Estimated amount of time it would take to generate this phrase randomly: 0 years 0 days 0 hours 3 minutes 22.6 seconds.

It begins with SEVEN, in the middle it's SEVEN! And it IS Seven!

The Alpha and the Omega!

The beginning and the end!

This is proof of God! How can those numbers have NOT come together in any other way!? The number of God is 777 and there's 3 sevens inside of these results! With one seven being the first, and the last seven being the last!

OMG IT'S A MIRACLE!

HOW CAN YOU DENY THIS LOGIC?! ZOMGS!!!!11oneone
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: MrBogosity on February 22, 2009, 09:51:26 AM
Cool, IceSage...now run it again. :P
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Real Captain Olimar on March 27, 2009, 07:18:54 AM
Cool, IceSage...now run it again. :P

Nice comeback!
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Jesus Loves Dinosaurs on April 13, 2009, 06:29:19 AM
I do not think that you guys quite understand the dangers of hell.  Imagine a really bad part of town.  Hell is much much worse than that.  The things that will happen if you go there will be a very unfortunate sight.  It is also sad because some other people there are much more evil than you-- like Hitler, Stalin, and Darwin too. 

If you deny Jesus and want to use the Evolution and time as your God instead, it is a false idol and will not save you.  You are not a monkey and have never been a monkey.  Stop using excuses to promote your sinful lifestyle!!!  Man is more noble than beasts.  We have the breath of an eternal soul!!!

Common sense should tell you that there are no transitional forms.  If you read the bible, you will see that Darwin was wrong.

Jesus Loves Dinosaurs-- Even the meat eating ones! (like what will eat the peoples in hell)
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Tom S. Fox on April 13, 2009, 07:26:08 AM
WOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!! We’ve got our first fundie!!!
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: 11mc22 on April 13, 2009, 02:31:20 PM
I do not think that you guys quite understand the dangers of hell.  Imagine a really bad part of town.  Hell is much much worse than that.  The things that will happen if you go there will be a very unfortunate sight.  It is also sad because some other people there are much more evil than you-- like Hitler, Stalin, and Darwin too. 

If you deny Jesus and want to use the Evolution and time as your God instead, it is a false idol and will not save you.  You are not a monkey and have never been a monkey.  Stop using excuses to promote your sinful lifestyle!!!  Man is more noble than beasts.  We have the breath of an eternal soul!!!

Common sense should tell you that there are no transitional forms.  If you read the bible, you will see that Darwin was wrong.

Jesus Loves Dinosaurs-- Even the meat eating ones! (like what will eat the peoples in hell)


Satire?
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Real Captain Olimar on April 13, 2009, 04:27:29 PM
If you read the bible, you will see that Darwin was wrong.

If you read the world, you would see that jesus was wrong.
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Jesus Loves Dinosaurs on April 13, 2009, 08:04:37 PM
If you read the world, you would see that jesus was wrong.

Would it burn your hand to pick up a bible and read?  For you, I would recommend the book of James.  It is a short book to start with and tells you about salvation (and hell!!).  I think that it will ring with truth for you if you soften your heart.

There are materialistic naturalists (some call them Darwinists, but I know this is wrong) who want to Big Bang nature on the first date (sorry, that's my joke -- but they have lost respect for nature like respect for women in their theories).  They are the ones who are funny like in a satire comedy show.  Like a Scientology alien cult, the more you get in, the more ridiculous things they want you to believe in-- like "magic particles" that travel though them and no one has ever detected... or the big bang of nature, which is a theory that doesn't go anywhere.  Somewhere along the line they have hidden their hearts from the Holy Spirit and gotten distracted in the search for Jesus.

I hope that you will check around for Jesus.  That way, you don't have to be so alone in this life.

Jesus Loves Dinosaurs-- Even the ones that are still alive today!
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Virgil0211 on April 13, 2009, 08:37:13 PM
Would it burn your hand to pick up a bible and read?  For you, I would recommend the book of James.  It is a short book to start with and tells you about salvation (and hell!!).  I think that it will ring with truth for you if you soften your heart.

There are materialistic naturalists (some call them Darwinists, but I know this is wrong) who want to Big Bang nature on the first date (sorry, that's my joke -- but they have lost respect for nature like respect for women in their theories).  They are the ones who are funny like in a satire comedy show.  Like a Scientology alien cult, the more you get in, the more ridiculous things they want you to believe in-- like "magic particles" that travel though them and no one has ever detected... or the big bang of nature, which is a theory that doesn't go anywhere.  Somewhere along the line they have hidden their hearts from the Holy Spirit and gotten distracted in the search for Jesus.

I hope that you will check around for Jesus.  That way, you don't have to be so alone in this life.

Jesus Loves Dinosaurs-- Even the ones that are still alive today!

Don't feed the troll.
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: MrBogosity on April 13, 2009, 08:39:25 PM
Would it burn your hand to pick up a bible and read?

I've read the Bible, cover to cover, and parts of it numerous times. I spent three years studying the Bible, its origins, and the interpretations of the text.

It's a big part of why I'm an atheist!
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Andy120290 on April 13, 2009, 11:28:52 PM
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/missioncmdr/bible_fiction1.jpg)

First thing that came up when I Googled "bible" and "fiction."
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Tom S. Fox on April 14, 2009, 02:11:08 AM
Would it burn your hand to pick up a bible and read?

This is what gets me about believers. They think the only reason we don’t buy into their nonsense is that we haven’t dared to read their so-called holy book, yet.
Title: "Read the bible"
Post by: Jesus Loves Dinosaurs on April 14, 2009, 03:40:38 AM
Mr.Bogosity,
Reading the bible like a textbook is not as easy as it seems.  You may be bogged down in the genealogies or the construction of the Jewish temple and then when you get to the real word of Jesus, you are part asleep.  For much of the bible, you need a scholarly Baptist preacher to guide you through the meanings and revelations.  Jesus spoke in parables so that the people of God could understand him, but those not of God could not.  You cannot read with a hardened heart.  In Carolina, I know there are Baptists who can show you the light.  They may even come knocking at your door offering pamphlets about salvation and the Good News!!!  You should note that the good news is regarding salvation from the hell!!

Prayer works for true believers if it is in God's will, and I will make a prayer for you to find the Lord and reject Darwin and Satan too.  I do not understand why some people think the world lasted so long before the time of the Great Flood.  When you see the truth, you can stop pretending like you were born from a monkey.  Glory! :D


Jesus Loves Dinosaurs-- Even the dirty-hippie vegan ones.
Title: Re: "Read the bible"
Post by: Real Captain Olimar on April 14, 2009, 07:25:17 AM
Mr.Bogosity,
Reading the bible like a textbook is not as easy as it seems.  You may be bogged down in the genealogies or the construction of the Jewish temple and then when you get to the real word of Jesus, you are part asleep.  For much of the bible, you need a scholarly Baptist preacher to guide you through the meanings and revelations.  Jesus spoke in parables so that the people of God could understand him, but those not of God could not.  You cannot read with a hardened heart.  In Carolina, I know there are Baptists who can show you the light.  They may even come knocking at your door offering pamphlets about salvation and the Good News!!!  You should note that the good news is regarding salvation from the hell!!

Prayer works for true believers if it is in God's will, and I will make a prayer for you to find the Lord and reject Darwin and Satan too.  I do not understand why some people think the world lasted so long before the time of the Great Flood.  When you see the truth, you can stop pretending like you were born from a monkey.  Glory! :D


Jesus Loves Dinosaurs-- Even the dirty-hippie vegan ones.

God invented evolution.
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: MrBogosity on April 14, 2009, 11:03:46 AM
Mr.Bogosity,
Reading the bible like a textbook is not as easy as it seems.  You may be bogged down in the genealogies or the construction of the Jewish temple and then when you get to the real word of Jesus, you are part asleep.

I spent more time on the gospels than any other part of the Bible. That's one way you can tell the deluded: they make these kinds of assumptions.

Quote
For much of the bible, you need a scholarly Baptist preacher to guide you through the meanings and revelations.  Jesus spoke in parables so that the people of God could understand him, but those not of God could not.

I was a Christian at the time. Had been all my life.

Quote
You cannot read with a hardened heart.

I didn't have a hardened heart.

The Bible does not make sense. Deal with it.
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Tom S. Fox on April 14, 2009, 11:53:39 AM
I was a Christian at the time. Had been all my life.

Woah! Now I’m shocked!
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: MrBogosity on April 14, 2009, 11:57:07 AM
Yes, it's true: I wasn't born the towering, insightful intellect you see before you! :)
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Tom S. Fox on April 14, 2009, 12:05:37 PM
And I bet you weren’t as modest, either.
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Travis Retriever on April 14, 2009, 03:04:29 PM
I was a Christian at the time. Had been all my life.
Conservative Christian, I take it?

I didn't have a hardened heart.
The Bible does not make sense. Deal with it.
Ain't that the truth. XD
It's not us atheists' fault the bible is so poorly written.  :P
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Jesus Loves Dinosaurs on April 15, 2009, 04:37:28 AM
Well, that was just one of the many ways people can go wrong reading the bible on their own-- I didn't say it was what your problem was.  I think you need to spend time with some good southern Baptists.  Some people just cannot accept that there are mysteries in life, and one of these mysteries deals with reading the will of God and the parables of Jesus.   Mr.Bogosity, today I would like you to reflect on the parable of the Unpopular Banquet: Matthew 21:1-13, Luke 14:16-23.  I believe you will learn much within it's pages!!

And 'ha-ha' to the guy saying God invented evolution... He invented it like your mom invented crabs (that's my joke).  The funny thing you should know about fossils is that they are not actually bones.  They have been supposedly "replaced by minerals"-- which means they are essentially rocks.  What a lot of these people do, is carve up stones so that they look like bones and they then have an erector set to make all these fantastical creatures.  Many of them are too absurd to comprehend, but you will buy anything these people sell.  Now, not all of them a frauds of course, some of them are from the devil instead and should be pulverized to let the demons escape.   It is sad the lengths that satan will go to to send people to the hell!  Especially for those weak of heart, and weak of faith.  Fear not.. I shall help to guide you to the promised land.  The bible says that "the devil will deceive you!" and behold, it has come to pass.  Yet another correct prediction of the bible, proving once again that it is the divinely inspired word of our Lord!!

Some of the earlier posts gave me this reaction:  :o followed by  :'(


Jesus Loves Dinosaurs-- Including the ones with low brain-to-body ratios.
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Tom S. Fox on April 15, 2009, 05:46:22 AM
Well, that was just one of the many ways people can go wrong reading the bible on their own ...

Read the bible and still don’t believe in god? Well, you read it wrong!
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Real Captain Olimar on April 15, 2009, 06:23:24 PM
Well, that was just one of the many ways people can go wrong reading the bible on their own-- I didn't say it was what your problem was.  I think you need to spend time with some good southern Baptists.  Some people just cannot accept that there are mysteries in life, and one of these mysteries deals with reading the will of God and the parables of Jesus.   Mr.Bogosity, today I would like you to reflect on the parable of the Unpopular Banquet: Matthew 21:1-13, Luke 14:16-23.  I believe you will learn much within it's pages!!

And 'ha-ha' to the guy saying God invented evolution... He invented it like your mom invented crabs (that's my joke).  The funny thing you should know about fossils is that they are not actually bones.  They have been supposedly "replaced by minerals"-- which means they are essentially rocks.  What a lot of these people do, is carve up stones so that they look like bones and they then have an erector set to make all these fantastical creatures.  Many of them are too absurd to comprehend, but you will buy anything these people sell.  Now, not all of them a frauds of course, some of them are from the devil instead and should be pulverized to let the demons escape.   It is sad the lengths that satan will go to to send people to the hell!  Especially for those weak of heart, and weak of faith.  Fear not.. I shall help to guide you to the promised land.  The bible says that "the devil will deceive you!" and behold, it has come to pass.  Yet another correct prediction of the bible, proving once again that it is the divinely inspired word of our Lord!!

Some of the earlier posts gave me this reaction:  :o followed by  :'(


Jesus Loves Dinosaurs-- Including the ones with low brain-to-body ratios.

We're gonna have to ask you to leave.
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: BZ987654 on April 15, 2009, 07:23:19 PM
I do not think that you guys quite understand the dangers of hell.  Imagine a really bad part of town.  Hell is much much worse than that.  The things that will happen if you go there will be a very unfortunate sight.  It is also sad because some other people there are much more evil than you-- like Hitler, Stalin, and Darwin too. 

If you deny Jesus and want to use the Evolution and time as your God instead, it is a false idol and will not save you.  You are not a monkey and have never been a monkey.  Stop using excuses to promote your sinful lifestyle!!!  Man is more noble than beasts.  We have the breath of an eternal soul!!!

Common sense should tell you that there are no transitional forms.  If you read the bible, you will see that Darwin was wrong.

Jesus Loves Dinosaurs-- Even the meat eating ones! (like what will eat the peoples in hell)


*reads posts and continues to sin anyway*
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: MrBogosity on April 15, 2009, 07:39:59 PM
We're gonna have to ask you to leave.
I hate to point this out, but his bogometer reading is nowhere near as high as yours.
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: ffejpsycho on April 15, 2009, 08:14:08 PM
The funny thing you should know about fossils is that they are not actually bones.  They have been supposedly "replaced by minerals"-- which means they are essentially rocks.  What a lot of these people do, is carve up stones so that they look like bones and they then have an erector set to make all these fantastical creatures. Now, not all of them a frauds of course, some of them are from the devil instead and should be pulverized to let the demons escape. 

Obvious Troll Is Obvious. I call Poe!

If dinosaurs are merely figments of the devils imagination. and their bones are crafted by him out of stone.
1. Why would god love dinosaurs?
2. How could even a semi-intelligent god, let alone omniscient one. Allow his supposed rival to plant such confusing and contradictory evidence in the ground. Which he knows will confuse the world and therefore condemn many people to the depths of hell... Not very benevolent... down right Sadistic...
Title: Haha, Have a made the win yet?
Post by: Jesus Loves Dinosaurs on April 15, 2009, 09:51:41 PM
Read the bible and still don’t believe in god? Well, you read it wrong!

Read a book about the history of American music and still don't believe in the Big Bopper?  Well, you read it wrong!
*score*  ;D

We're gonna have to ask you to leave.

That is such a pity.  We hadn't even gotten into the meat of the evolution controversy here and already there are people trying to shut me up and lock me out.  They are afraid that I will call them out on their false rationalizations for their sinful lifestyles. 

Others with a similar mind tried to shut up another man I know, His name is Jesus!!  Guess what, they failed big time!  Jesus 'pwned' them all, just as he is doing with you right now.  Do what you will with me, I will turn the other cheek.  However, you cannot ignore the words that you have read.  You cannot rationalize away the final destination of your eternal soul!  You cannot refute my logic with censorship.  You all will be judged, along with me and all of mankind!!!! 

If dinosaurs are merely figments of the devils imagination. and their bones are crafted by him out of stone.
1. Why would god love dinosaurs?
2. How could even a semi-intelligent god, let alone omniscient one. Allow his supposed rival to plant such confusing and contradictory evidence in the ground. Which he knows will confuse the world and therefore condemn many people to the depths of hell... Not very benevolent... down right Sadistic...

1. I never said all dinosaurs are fake.  I happen to love dinosaurs-- and there are even some alive today.  Like the alligator and the komodo dragon.  Plus, there are plenty of extinct dinosaurs that we have REAL evidence for.  We don't always have to rely on fossils like those dummies try to plant on us.

2. God gave us free will.  He also gave Satan free will and reign over the earth.  You would know this if you read the bible!!  Satan has done all sorts of evil things.. like possess people (even animals like pigs!), cause disease, the Ice-capades (ha, my joke).  He also has tons of religions to worship him in different forms in order to insult God.. this includes the Roman religion which executed Jesus, the terrorist religions like the Islams, and he even made up religions to pre-plagiarize from the Holy Bible!! :-[.  He is deceptive, cunning and evil.  Do not be fooled.  He is only the God of hell, and that is the only place he will try to send you!!

Jesus Loves Dinosaurs-- All the dinos of the world.. red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in His sight! o/~
Title: No, you have not!
Post by: Tom S. Fox on April 16, 2009, 04:09:40 AM
Read a book about the history of American music and still don't believe in the Big Bopper?  Well, you read it wrong!
Okay, let’s turn this around: Have you read On the Origin of Species? If yes, you must have read it wrong, since you obviously don’t believe in evolution.

See the problem here, dipshit? You can’t just accuse somebody of having read a book "wrong" just because he doesn’t believe what it says. People have read the bible - possibly more thoroughly than you - and come to the conclusion that it is bullshit. Live with it.

*score*  ;D
No, no, you meant *fail*.

We hadn't even gotten into the meat of the evolution controversy here and already there are people trying to shut me up and lock me out.
Don’t pay attention to Real Captain Olimar, he is a moron.

They are afraid that I will call them out on their false rationalizations for their sinful lifestyles.
I’m shaking, I’m shaking.

Others with a similar mind tried to shut up another man I know, His name is Jesus!!
Comparing yourself to Jesus, eh? My, how modest you are!


In conclusion: No, you have not "made the win yet" and are not likely to do so, ever.
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: 11mc22 on April 16, 2009, 05:16:32 AM
hey Jesus loves dinosaurs

heres a Jesus hating mars rover

Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Jesus Loves Dinosaurs on April 16, 2009, 09:37:24 PM

Okie, well I guess I didn't make a good, believable YEC afterall.  I could go on with this, and maybe even a few of you got a laugh out of my posts-- I hope.  They were, of course, semi-transparent, or I wouldn't think them nearly as funny.  However the reaction here just wasn't as strong as I had hoped.  I always thought it would be a great parity of the Creation Museum, to have another museum put up across the street by a guy saying that fossils were from the devil and denouncing the Creation Museum from the "other side".  In the front hall, there would be some giant constructions where rocks were essentially welded together to form chimeras and goblins, showing "how easy it is".  In the back they could have a furnace where you could throw "satanic books", and a crusher where you could throw "truly demonic fossils".  Most of what I said is what I know a few people actually believe, so Poe doesn't necessarily need to prevail in this case. 

Anyway, I am in China now (first time) giving seminars on LXI.  The Chinese government has blocked U-Tube, and I started to miss a few of my favorites, especially when I got the subscriber-update e-mail.  Then I remembered that Shane had a web site/forum!  So I decided to check it out.  I used to run a website that had some similarities, but that was back in the BBS days.. anyway, enough personal nostalgia.  I'm happy to report that the Chinese government still allows access to this site, but was a little sad to see that none of the Bogosity or other vids were alternatively sourced so that I could watch.  Oddly enough, the gov't here also seems to allow access to several sites with articles critical of chairman Mao-- the man who no amount of death would teach.  This includes the Wikipedia article on his smarmy ass.  Believe me when I say that consumerism is alive and well here to a degree that will be difficult for any ideology to change.  Every time I take a taxi, I am amazed how everyone is looking out for number one.  The meals are fairly communal though among colleagues, and this is a very positive cultural aspect.

I've also tried accessing pron through the internet JUST to see how tight the blockade is ( ;))-- some sites are completely blocked, but a few you can access for a while.  There are actually people paid to monitor what sites people are linking to, I mean individually monitor.  If you wander away for a while and start going through a site with "approved materials", then come back, you can surf pron for a short time again.  This is really some ridiculous crap. 


Jesus Loves Dinosaurs-- Kent Hovind Loves Science
Title: Re: Online evolution demo
Post by: Tom S. Fox on April 17, 2009, 05:20:01 AM
Damn, I already sent some of your quotes to Fundies say the Darndest Things.
Title: Re: Haha, Have a made the win yet?
Post by: Real Captain Olimar on April 17, 2009, 06:28:44 PM
I happen to love dinosaurs-- and there are even some alive today.

Just to clear things up for the people who didn't realise tis was SATIRE (myself included), those are not dinosaurs. But modern day dinosaurs DO include:

Mallard Duck

Ostrich

Bee Hummingbird

Bald Eagle

Osprey

Northern Cardinal

Indigo Bunting


...just to name a small number of dinsaur species alive today.