Author Topic: UFOs and Aliens  (Read 19987 times)

JaquesPlafond

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Re: Aliens
« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2009, 08:29:12 PM »
I think footage has actually been filmed in several angles by different witnesses.. i remember a case in mexico where there were at least 4 videos of the same object filmed in 4 angles.. i'd have to do some research to locate it, if it's on youtube at all.

In the meanwhile, i think this documentary gives food for thought too:

http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=5545276251937701731&hl=nl


Real Captain Olimar

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Re: UFOs on Lary King Live and the fine art of ganging up on Bill Nye
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2009, 05:39:05 PM »
To JaquesPlafond:

SHUT UP YOU MORON!

Tom S. Fox

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Re: UFOs on Lary King Live and the fine art of ganging up on Bill Nye
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2009, 11:38:00 AM »
SHUT UP YOU MORON!

… said the pot to the kettle.

Travis Retriever

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Re: UFOs on Lary King Live and the fine art of ganging up on Bill Nye
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2009, 09:49:25 PM »
True, but at least RCO doesn't go around spouting bogosity the way these guys do...He's more a drop a single annoying line kinda guy.
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
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Re: UFOs on Lary King Live and the fine art of ganging up on Bill Nye
« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2009, 12:40:36 PM »
Long posts are long

MrBogosity

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UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #50 on: July 31, 2009, 09:27:21 AM »
Combining threads on this subject into one. I may do this in the next batch.

JaquesPlafond

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Re: UFOs on Lary King Live and the fine art of ganging up on Bill Nye
« Reply #51 on: August 18, 2009, 06:14:47 PM »
To JaquesPlafond:

SHUT UP YOU MORON!

lol.. is there still a place somewhere that's free of idiot youtube-kids? Oh well.. here's some candy, and now stop whining ok?


In the meanwhile, check this out:

British government published 4,000 pages documenting 800 UFO encounters

LONDON (AP) - The deputy commander of a U.S. Air Force base in England was baffled by what he'd seen: bright, pulsing lights in the night sky. Britain's defense ministry couldn't explain it either, but concluded that the unidentified flying object posed no threat.

The National Archives on Monday released the government's complete file on the "Rendlesham Forest Incident" of December 1980, one of Britain's most famous UFO sightings.

It was among more than 4,000 pages posted online Monday documenting 800 alleged encounters during the 1980s and 1990s. Over the past three years the Ministry of Defense has been gradually releasing previously secret UFO papers after facing Freedom of Information demands.

The Rendlesham file contains U.S. Air Force Lt. Col. Charles Halt's first-hand account of the event, which has been public knowledge for many years. The file includes the conclusions of a British government investigation and a letter from a former defense chief urging officials to take UFOs more seriously.

Halt reported that two servicemen had noticed "unusual lights" about 3 a.m. in the woods outside the gates of RAF Woodbridge, a U.S. base in eastern England. He wrote that patrolmen sent to investigate saw "a strange glowing object" in the forest.

The metallic, triangular object "illuminated the entire forest with a white light," he wrote.

The next day, investigators found depressions in the ground and unusual radiation readings. That night many personnel - including Halt himself - saw a pulsing "red sun-like light" in the trees that broke into five white objects and disappeared.

The Ministry of Defense could offer no definitive explanation for what the Air Force officers had reported seeing, but also found no evidence of "any threat to the defense of the United Kingdom."

Nothing had registered on radar, and "there was no evidence of anything having intruded into U.K. airspace and landed near RAF Woodbridge."

A 1983 letter in the file proposes a possible explanation involving a combination of the nearby Orford Ness lighthouse, a fireball and bright stars. Case closed, as far as the ministry was concerned. But not everyone was convinced.

A 1985 letter from Lord Hill-Norton, former head of Britain's armed forces, to then-Defense Secretary Michael Heseltine, complained that the "puzzling and disquieting" episode had never been explained properly.

Hill-Norton said if the sighting was genuine, "British airspace and territory are vulnerable to unwarranted intrusion to a disturbing degree." The alternative explanation was that "a sizable number of USAF personnel at an important base in British territory are capable of serious misperception, the consequences of which might be grave in military terms."

Britain's defense ministry has charted UFO sightings since the 1950s, when a Flying Saucer Working Party was established. More files are due to be released by the archives through 2010.

Some of the newly released events came with easy explanations.

In 1993 and 1994, the ministry received numerous reports of a "brightly illuminated oval object" over London. It turned out to be an airship advertising a new car.

More mysterious was a UFO "attack" on a cemetery in Widnes, northwest England, in July 1996. A police report said a young man - "a sensible sort of lad and genuine" - reported seeing a UFO firing beams of light into the ground. A police officer sent to the scene found a smoldering railway sleeper. "It does look rather odd," reported the officer, whose name was blacked out in the document.

The files include a little grist for conspiracy theorists.

The head of the ministry's UFO desk wrote briefing notes in 1993 reporting a spate of sightings in southwest England and speculating whether they might be connected to Aurora, a secret U.S. spy plane whose existence has never been officially admitted.

Atop one of his letters, someone scrawled: "Thank you. I suggest you now drop this subject."

The files reveal a 1996 spike in UFO sightings: 609 that year, up from 117 the year before. David Clarke, a UFO historian and consultant to the National Archives, said it was probably no coincidence that the supernatural TV show "The X Files" was popular in Britain at the time, and that alien-invasion movie "Independence Day" came out the same year.

"It's evident there is some connection between newspaper stories, TV programs and films about alien visitors, and the numbers of UFO sightings," Clarke said.

"Aside from 1996, one of the busiest years for UFO sightings reported to the MoD (Ministry of Defense) over the past half century was 1978 - the year 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' was released."

On the Net: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

(Copyright ©2009 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)




MrBogosity

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Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #52 on: August 18, 2009, 06:27:45 PM »
And still we're left with, "People see stuff and don't know what it is."

Conversation over. If you've got evidence for aliens, bring it, but like creationists you UFO nuts rely on your "aliens of the gaps."

JaquesPlafond

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Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #53 on: August 18, 2009, 08:24:34 PM »
Well, it doesn't seem to be as simple as 'people seeing stuff and don't know what it is'. Sure, that happens a lot, but when those things display properties that indicate technologies that are beyond our present technology, then i think such a phenomenon needs to be looked into. There's no point in denying that it even exists.. for anyone who looks at the data (and i don't mean tabloid filler crap) this should be blatantly obvious real quick. So with this in mind, i'm wondering how familiar you actually are with this subject?

I don't mind you calling me a UFO nut.. i'm in good company, so call me or all those other millions of people who don't share your opinion whatever you like.. i don't think that will be a very fruitfull enterprise though ;)

So do we have evidence for aliens? You tell me.. what we do have evidence of is objects flying around our skies which represent a technology apparently beyond that which we officially know. There are gazillions of sightings of so-called 'black triangles' for instance, and they too display properties beyond our own. What craft do we have that's the size of a football-field (and bigger), capable of flying at ultra-low speeds (even hovering), and then zipping off into infinity within the blink of an eye? The only ways 'skeptics' can handle this kind of data is by simply ignoring/changing the data or blackballing the witnesses (like calling them 'believers' or 'UFO-nuts'). The data is still there though.

It's interesting that you bring up creationists though, because i spot a very interesting similarity between them and ' ufo-skeptics'... namely that both have a theory which they have to manipulate data around to make it fit their theory/ideology. For creationists it's that God created everything in 6 days, 6000 years ago.. so they go around trying to find data that fits this idea, and ignore/deny/change everything that doesn't fit.

In the case of UFO-skeptics, their ' ideology' is that IF there are aliens, they are too far away and therefore they can't come to earth and hence anyone reporting 'aliens' or 'spaceships' is nuts, a hoaxer or a liar. Therefore, any data that hints to anything that doesn't fit the theory has be 'explained' away, or written off as a misperception, or whatever

The sad thing is that this strawman prevents those 'skeptics' to even look at the data (with at least an open mind anyway).. and i notice you bring up this same fallacy as well: you want the aliens and the spaceships, not the actual data that's already present.

You may have noticed how 'skeptics' like to go on and on on how bad people are observing/perceiving things, and how easily they ignore data that doesn't fit their theory (i can give you some examples if you wish.. Phill Klass, Michael Schermer, James McGaha etc have served us well in that respect). It's the exact same thing creationists do! They go on and on about how untrustworthy dating techniques are, how the evolution theory makes no sense.. you know the drill.

So basically it comes down to this: they (creationists/skeptibunkers) start with the theory (there can't be aliens coming to earth / God created everything) and then look for data to make everything 'fit', and ignore/distort everything else.

I suggest we start with the data, then do the science (research, analize the data as much as we can), and then see what conclusions we can draw from that.. let the chips fall wherever they may. 

As luck would have it, such an effort is already underway. You may want to look at this site for instance:

http://www.ufoskeptic.org/ (An information site on the UFO phenomenon by and for professional scientists.)

And yes, it says 'skeptic' there, as long as you remember this:
Skeptic - One who practices the method of suspended judgment, engages in rational and dispassionate reasoning as exemplified by the scientific method, shows willingness to consider alternative explanations without prejudice based on prior beliefs, and who seeks out evidence and carefully scrutinizes its validity.

Enjoy :)

Travis Retriever

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Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #54 on: August 18, 2009, 08:29:25 PM »
Well, it doesn't seem to be as simple as 'people seeing stuff and don't know what it is'. Sure, that happens a lot, but when those things display properties that indicate technologies that are beyond our present technology, then i think such a phenomenon needs to be looked into. There's no point in denying that it even exists.. for anyone who looks at the data (and i don't mean tabloid filler crap) this should be blatantly obvious real quick. So with this in mind, i'm wondering how familiar you actually are with this subject?

I don't mind you calling me a UFO nut.. i'm in good company, so call me or all those other millions of people who don't share your opinion whatever you like.. i don't think that will be a very fruitfull enterprise though ;)

So do we have evidence for aliens? You tell me.. what we do have evidence of is objects flying around our skies which represent a technology apparently beyond that which we officially know. There are gazillions of sightings of so-called 'black triangles' for instance, and they too display properties beyond our own. What craft do we have that's the size of a football-field (and bigger), capable of flying at ultra-low speeds (even hovering), and then zipping off into infinity within the blink of an eye? The only ways 'skeptics' can handle this kind of data is by simply ignoring/changing the data or blackballing the witnesses (like calling them 'believers' or 'UFO-nuts'). The data is still there though.

It's interesting that you bring up creationists though, because i spot a very interesting similarity between them and ' ufo-skeptics'... namely that both have a theory which they have to manipulate data around to make it fit their theory/ideology. For creationists it's that God created everything in 6 days, 6000 years ago.. so they go around trying to find data that fits this idea, and ignore/deny/change everything that doesn't fit.

In the case of UFO-skeptics, their ' ideology' is that IF there are aliens, they are too far away and therefore they can't come to earth and hence anyone reporting 'aliens' or 'spaceships' is nuts, a hoaxer or a liar. Therefore, any data that hints to anything that doesn't fit the theory has be 'explained' away, or written off as a misperception, or whatever

The sad thing is that this strawman prevents those 'skeptics' to even look at the data (with at least an open mind anyway).. and i notice you bring up this same fallacy as well: you want the aliens and the spaceships, not the actual data that's already present.

You may have noticed how 'skeptics' like to go on and on on how bad people are observing/perceiving things, and how easily they ignore data that doesn't fit their theory (i can give you some examples if you wish.. Phill Klass, Michael Schermer, James McGaha etc have served us well in that respect). It's the exact same thing creationists do! They go on and on about how untrustworthy dating techniques are, how the evolution theory makes no sense.. you know the drill.

So basically it comes down to this: they (creationists/skeptibunkers) start with the theory (there can't be aliens coming to earth / God created everything) and then look for data to make everything 'fit', and ignore/distort everything else.

I suggest we start with the data, then do the science (research, analize the data as much as we can), and then see what conclusions we can draw from that.. let the chips fall wherever they may. 

As luck would have it, such an effort is already underway. You may want to look at this site for instance:

http://www.ufoskeptic.org/ (An information site on the UFO phenomenon by and for professional scientists.)

And yes, it says 'skeptic' there, as long as you remember this:
Skeptic - One who practices the method of suspended judgment, engages in rational and dispassionate reasoning as exemplified by the scientific method, shows willingness to consider alternative explanations without prejudice based on prior beliefs, and who seeks out evidence and carefully scrutinizes its validity.

Enjoy :)
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"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

JaquesPlafond

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Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #55 on: August 18, 2009, 08:49:13 PM »
lol.. more youtube kids with an attention-span of about 1.3 seconds :P

It does explain a lot of what i was talking about though, so thanks.

Travis Retriever

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Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #56 on: August 18, 2009, 08:56:09 PM »
I have a good attention span.  I don't don't find interest listening to a bunch of conspiracy nonsense and arguments from ignorance.

Cute.
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

JaquesPlafond

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Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #57 on: August 18, 2009, 09:03:32 PM »
You didn't read it, so what makes you conclude it's conspiracy nonsense and arguments from ignorance?

Once again, your methods are typical, and confirm my statements.

Now back to youtube with you! ;)
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 09:08:15 PM by JaquesPlafond »

MrBogosity

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Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #58 on: August 18, 2009, 09:04:10 PM »
No, you have people who see something they don't understand, and their brain tries to fit it into its model of the universe. Those "properties" come from that, NOT the observations.

We don't have a short attention span; we just understand that, how, and why eyewitness testimony is incredibly unreliable.

JaquesPlafond

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Re: UFOs and Aliens
« Reply #59 on: August 18, 2009, 09:15:53 PM »
Is that so?

Investigation by proclamation, as they say. One helluva easy way to nullify all available data, including video, radar, multiple corroborating witness testimony, etc.

Could you tell me what this object, photographed, filmed, showing up on 2 F16 radars and observed by literally thousands of people in Belgium in the early 90s is?