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Author Topic: Fathead  (Read 8358 times)

Travis Retriever

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Fathead
« on: April 25, 2010, 09:11:36 PM »

The video also states that after we began farming, we became shorter and fatter.
He also goes into a study he claims is cherry picked.

Personally, the more I see this kind of stuff, the more I want science, ALL of it, to be separated from the state (if the state exists).
There is supposed to be a wall of separation of church and state, I say there should be a wall separating science and state.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 11:21:23 PM by surhotchaperchlorome »
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MrBogosity

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Re: Fat doesn't cause Heat Disease?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2010, 10:26:17 PM »
Man, I didn't even get through the first 15 seconds without finding a bunch of things wrong with it...
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Travis Retriever

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Re: Fat doesn't cause Heat Disease?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2010, 12:53:43 AM »
I know, right?

It reminds me of how my Psychology teacher told us that the least reliable "studies" (or whatever word he used) are documentaries.
I'd say he was on the money with that one.
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Gumba Masta

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Re: Fat doesn't cause Heat Disease?
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2010, 08:17:50 AM »
Quote from: MrBogosity on April 25, 2010, 10:26:17 PM
Man, I didn't even get through the first 15 seconds without finding a bunch of things wrong with it...
The first of it being the thread title spelled wrong?
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Travis Retriever

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Re: Fat doesn't cause Heat Disease?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2010, 12:26:02 PM »
Quote from: Gumba Masta on April 26, 2010, 08:17:50 AM
The first of it being the thread title spelled wrong?
There, I fixed it.
Happy now? :P
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"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Gumba Masta

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Re: Fat doesn't cause Heat Disease?
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2010, 01:11:09 PM »
Quote from: surhotchaperchlorome on April 26, 2010, 12:26:02 PM
There, I fixed it.
Happy now? :P
Well, aaaalright, but only because I love you.
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Travis Retriever

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Re: Fat doesn't cause Heart Disease?
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2011, 12:06:55 PM »
Even worse, people who I thought were smarter than that, like Dale Everett: http://anarchyinyourhead.com/2011/02/23/vegan-diet-2/
Are actually applauding that bunch of bogosity...
Damn it Dale, I really expected better from you of all people...
As I said in the comments of that comic:
"@reams: I’ve seen about 2 minutes or so of it from YouTube (specifically this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8WA5wcaHp4 ), and I’m not impressed.
It’s packed with lots of anti-scientific nonsense, a serious lack of much needed citation (especially near the beginning) and conspiracy mongering.
We should be critical of government, we shouldn’t make stuff up either."
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Travis Retriever

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Re: Fat doesn't cause Heart Disease?
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2011, 12:08:58 PM »
In keeping with the ways of this forum, here's a video against the above: 
In light of Spinney and the above's dichotomy,
As if the ONLY choices or ways to get healthy involve either a vegan diet or a neo-Atkins diet...

I've said it once, and I'll say it again.  Documentaries, because they lack controls (and honesty more often than not), are among the least reliable of forms of research.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2011, 11:22:02 PM by surhotchaperchlorome »
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Travis Retriever

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Re: Fat doesn't cause Heart Disease?
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2011, 12:46:46 PM »
And I got a rather unexpected reply from Dale to my above posted comment. O.o

"Citations in a movie? That seems awfully awkward to me. It seems like a movie like this should just be to inspire you to learn more and do your own research. Papers and books should have citations. This movie was almost a direct response to Super-size Me. How did you feel about the citations of that movie?"

To which I just responded: "@Dale: Whoa, wasn’t expecting you to respond. :P

You simply put them in the end, if need be along with the credits, simple. They could even be verbal citations, not necessarily text citations within the movie’s body (which I agree would be a tad awkward).
Yeah, I’m aware that it’s a response to Super-Size Me which had it’s own serious problems being a documentary.
I’d have to watch Super-Size Me again as it’s been ages since I’ve seen it, but if memory serves, they were better with spoken citations, though it was still riddled with it’s own problems…(e.g. lack of controls, lack of mention of gov’t influence on obesity)

Though you do make a good point about the inspire you to learn more and do your own research deal.

And I am an anarchist, just for the record."

I do believe I've understated his intelligence once again.  My bad.
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Travis Retriever

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Re: Fat doesn't cause Heart Disease?
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2011, 01:04:37 PM »
And his reply:  "Have you checked the actual movie for citations at the end? I haven’t checked myself, but you’re commenting on a 2 and a half minute segment of the movie on YouTube."

Of course, it still wouldn't get around the other rather serious issues in what little of it I've seen.
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Travis Retriever

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Re: Fat doesn't cause Heart Disease?
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2011, 06:06:03 PM »
And I got this reply from someone on Dale's comic:
"Surhotchaperchlorome, How can you possibly judge a movie’s scientific credibility from watching 2 1/2 minutes of a 2 hour movie? It boggles my mind! I watched the movie and there is a lot more real science in it than in much of the stuff that passes for nutritional advice out there. And I my degrees are in science, so I know what controls are and that correlation does not equal causation, a point made very clearly in the movie. As to citations, he has plenty–and not just at the end–in the form of interviews, books, etc. Watch the movie, read the books cited, Then you could actually have something to say that might be taken seriously."

1. Appeal to authority
2. Then explain the godawful snippet I posted at the start of this thread.
3. Note how he doesn't actually give any examples.
4. Appeal to ridicule, if not ad hominem outright...
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Travis Retriever

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Re: Fat doesn't cause Heart Disease?
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2011, 11:20:56 PM »
OK, I just renamed this topic "Fathead" after the movie.
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Travis Retriever

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Re: Fathead
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2011, 09:46:32 AM »
Quote from: surhotchaperchlorome on April 04, 2011, 06:06:03 PM
And I got this reply from someone on Dale's comic:
"Surhotchaperchlorome, How can you possibly judge a movie’s scientific credibility from watching 2 1/2 minutes of a 2 hour movie? It boggles my mind! I watched the movie and there is a lot more real science in it than in much of the stuff that passes for nutritional advice out there. And I my degrees are in science, so I know what controls are and that correlation does not equal causation, a point made very clearly in the movie. As to citations, he has plenty–and not just at the end–in the form of interviews, books, etc. Watch the movie, read the books cited, Then you could actually have something to say that might be taken seriously."

1. Appeal to authority
2. Then explain the godawful snippet I posted at the start of this thread.
3. Note how he doesn't actually give any examples.
4. Appeal to ridicule, if not ad hominem outright...
And of course, even assuming she is being honest, there are still the various logical (and economic) issues, Lord T Hawkeye, Shane and Jacob Spinney came up with...
If she has a science degree, she might want to consider changing her field and getting a refund.
I'm just saying...
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 10:35:45 AM by surhotchaperchlorome »
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Virgil0211

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Re: Fathead
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2011, 01:48:36 PM »
Heh. I'd just been thinking about this topic over the past couple of weeks, heart disease being in my family and all. Interesting coinky-dink. =P

My doctor actually gave me a diet plan that wasn't as strict as Atkins with carbohydrates, but still recommended keeping them below a set limit (no more than 100g per day). It didn't particularly recommend replacing everything with protein, though it did recommend sticking to leaner meats like fish and boneless/skinless chicken. Apparently, avoiding the carbs is more about insulin levels than anything else. I'd have to re-read the papers he gave me.
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Travis Retriever

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Re: Fathead
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2011, 04:56:55 PM »
Quote from: Virgil0211 on April 07, 2011, 01:48:36 PM
Heh. I'd just been thinking about this topic over the past couple of weeks, heart disease being in my family and all. Interesting coinky-dink. =P

My doctor actually gave me a diet plan that wasn't as strict as Atkins with carbohydrates, but still recommended keeping them below a set limit (no more than 100g per day). It didn't particularly recommend replacing everything with protein, though it did recommend sticking to leaner meats like fish and boneless/skinless chicken. Apparently, avoiding the carbs is more about insulin levels than anything else. I'd have to re-read the papers he gave me.

Really now?  A bit odd since, last I checked, Atkins didn't have any evidence for his diet, but still somewhat fascinating.
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"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537
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