Weird music stuck in your head or weird television/movies you watch

Started by Virgil0211, April 07, 2010, 08:59:22 AM

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This probably won't mean anything to any of the non-trekkies here, but...

[yt]FbbNn0yPJs0[/yt]

[yt]XrZ7E2WC3RI[/yt]

A couple of samples from Ron Jones's score for "Best of Both Worlds", which won an award when it was released on a stand-alone CD. He was soon thereafter fired by producer Rick Berman because, according to him, the music was getting too noticeable. I.e., he fired the composer for being too good at his job. From then on, music in the various series was generally treated much like one would a toilet. It's there, serving some role, but should be tucked away where people won't notice it.

Sorry for the rant. It's just frustrating that, just as the series was hitting its stride with some really high-quality scripts and stories, that Berman goes off and fires the composer. The subsequent music wasn't bad, but let's just say that there were some really crappy episodes in the first couple of seasons that you could still watch and enjoy thanks to the music. I'd love to see them hire Ron Jones to go back and write scores for the rest of the series and release that as some sort of special edition, but I doubt that'd ever happen. It'd be tantamount to Berman admitting a mistake, which means he'd have to apologize for the majority of ST: Voyager and almost all of ST: Enterprise. =P


Quote from: Virgil0211 on June 29, 2011, 08:49:30 AM
He was soon thereafter fired by producer Rick Berman because, according to him, the music was getting too noticeable. I.e., he fired the composer for being too good at his job. From then on, music in the various series was generally treated much like one would a toilet. It's there, serving some role, but should be tucked away where people won't notice it.

You copied that almost word to word from sfdebris, you slacker!

QuoteIt'd be tantamount to Berman admitting a mistake, which means he'd have to apologize for the majority of ST: Voyager and almost all of ST: Enterprise.

Well, DS9 kinda makes up for those two, I guess. But I haven't seen anything from those series, except reviews and such.

Except that DS9 was mostly a ripoff from Babylon 5. They were great when they struck out on their own though.

I liked the fact that I could adjust my hair while looking at Sisko's head.

Quote from: VectorM on June 29, 2011, 10:19:08 AM
You copied that almost word to word from sfdebris, you slacker!

Well, DS9 kinda makes up for those two, I guess. But I haven't seen anything from those series, except reviews and such.

1. I only had 2 hours of sleep at the time. Cut me some slack. =P

2. It was between him and Michael Piller. Piller quit working on Voyager after a bit to focus more on DS9, leaving Voyager to Berman. DS9 increased in quality starting in its 2nd season. Voyager stayed bad until about season 4 or 5, where it was mediocre to very, VERY occasionally being good.

And Enterprise was almost all awful. Apparently, season 4 was an improvement when it was handed over to Manny Coto (sp?), but I never stuck around for that. I quit after the time traveling space Nazis showed up.

Quote from: MrBogosity on June 29, 2011, 10:30:27 AM
Except that DS9 was mostly a ripoff from Babylon 5. They were great when they struck out on their own though.

Although DS9 probably had some influence from the Paramount exec who pitched the idea to Berman and Piller, it's doubtful the latter two knew about it (according to JMS). There are also a few key differences. For example, B5's jump gate was a mundane technology employed at the majority of outposts, whereas DS9's wormhole was the only stable one ever discovered and led to an unexplored region of space. DS9's position at the edge of this frontier was the source of its importance, whereas B5 was important for its political relationship with other races. That sort of thing.

I can see the similarities, though. For example, I tend to fall asleep during both of their first seasons. :-P

DS9 was important for Star Trek just from the perspective of developing the story, though. I mean, it was developed after Roddenberry died, and the writers weren't afraid to work outside of his edicts. They were also willing to explore how the Borg attack in "Best of Both Worlds" would affect the Federation, especially when they went up against another technologically advanced enemy that could easily infiltrate their organization (The Founders). The most interesting part about the episodes "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost" (2-parter) is that they aired in January of 1996. Take a look at those episodes and tell me your brain doesn't go immediately to the Patriot Act.

Anyway, I'm done for now. Just thought I'd give DS9 a token defense. They're both great shows, and I'd be hard pressed to pick one over the other.

EDIT: Well, not quite. Thought I'd post the fav quote I put in earlier. =P

[yt]3690qg76-go[/yt]

It's about 4m46s in. Tried to time-link it, but I don't know how to make it work in this forum.

Quote from: Virgil0211 on June 29, 2011, 04:23:19 PM
It's about 4m46s in. Tried to time-link it, but I don't know how to make it work in this forum.

You do it like this (you have to convert it into seconds):

[yt]3690qg76-go&start=286[/yt]

[yt-43]3690qg76-go&start=286[/yt-43]

[yt]cZiAxPXoLs0[/yt]

Thin Lizzy is easily one of my favorite bands ever.

Quote from: MrBogosity on June 29, 2011, 07:13:37 PM
You do it like this (you have to convert it into seconds):

[yt]3690qg76-go&start=286[/yt]

[yt-43]3690qg76-go&start=286[/yt-43]

Thanks. I'll remember that for the future.

Anyway, I guess what I was trying to say earlier is that it's likely that DS9 borrowed from B5's series bible, but wasn't the biggest component of it. The concept was originally pitched as a father and son being stationed on a contested frontier. Now, if you want a really obvious B5 ripoff, compare Species 8472 with the Shadows. =P


I'm proud to say I only know of Voyager stuff like that just from hearing other people talk about it. I bailed on that pretender to the Star Trek throne early on. The ONLY interesting character they ever had was played by Brad Dourif, and they killed him off after like 3 episodes.

Quote from: MrBogosity on June 29, 2011, 09:24:50 PM
I'm proud to say I only know of Voyager stuff like that just from hearing other people talk about it. I bailed on that pretender to the Star Trek throne early on. The ONLY interesting character they ever had was played by Brad Dourif, and they killed him off after like 3 episodes.

Yeah, Voyager was a mess. Although, they did have a couple of good parts. Ricardo's Doctor (The emergency medical hologram without a name, not a time lord.) and 7 of 9 were good characters as well, though the Doctor didn't develop as much until later, and 7 of 9 was a later addition to the cast. And as much as I may joke about Species 8472 being a knockoff of the shadows, Scorpion was a good episode. I mean, it was actually good enough to make you weep at what the show could've been if they'd had that kind of writing and direction for the rest of the series rather than one mid-series two-parter. I also feel a bit bad for the cast of the show. I mean, even the ones who seemed to consistently give out the worst performances on the show had other roles where they did well outside of Star Trek. Apparently, they were told to act the way they did by the directors (with incompetents like Kenneth Biller, I wouldn't be surprised), and they just kept getting terrible, unwieldy dialogue. I mean, the technobabble was about as nonsensical as the stuff in Doctor Who, but it wasn't able to make it charming like Doctor Who was.

And then there's Enterprise. They stumbled about horribly until about the third season, where they finally got the idea that "Hey, people might want to watch stuff that's actually relevant and might have real consequences. We've got time-traveling elements in here, so let's use that to make people think that the timeline might in some way be changed. Oh, and we might want to make our characters not act quite so much like dickheads in space." Then they hired Manny Coto (sp?) in some desperate attempt to save the series. He was going to take over in season 4. Yet, in some screwed up "scorched earth" move, they aped cheap action movie cliches in the season 3 finale, and teased the season 4 premier as featuring time traveling space Nazis. Needless to say, alot of viewers left after that. From what I've heard (haven't actually checked myself yet), season 4 of Enterprise was an improvement over the rest of the series, but I think I just described why it wasn't enough to save the show.

That was a big problem with the last two Star Trek series. They just took their audience for granted and never seemed to consider that they could lose their core fanbase. Rick Berman was probably the worst thing to ever happen to the franchise.

Quote from: Virgil0211 on July 04, 2011, 12:19:58 PM
Yeah, Voyager was a mess. Although, they did have a couple of good parts. Ricardo's Doctor (The emergency medical hologram without a name, not a time lord.)

I must say that I enjoyed the episode with him and Andy Dick. It's amazing how much better the episodes got the less they used the main cast...

QuoteI mean, the technobabble was about as nonsensical as the stuff in Doctor Who, but it wasn't able to make it charming like Doctor Who was.

And Doctor Who never really used it to further the plot like they did.

QuoteRick Berman was probably the worst thing to ever happen to the franchise.

And Brannon "Mini-Rick" Braga. They should look to the Stargate series to see how to do it right. When the writers realized they were getting formulaic and predictable around season 4, they started lampooning themselves. They also introduced a lot of new elements to keep the show good.

I'm convinced that this channel is one of the best channels on youtube.

This guy takes songs, and completely changes the genre. Some of his remixes are amazing, and others are just plain hilarious. He'll take the music out and change it to fit a specific genre while keeping the original vocals.

Here are a few examples:
[YT]N2F5Mi1eCE4[/YT]
[YT]PJkYGNiBkso[/YT]
[YT]OBmM79YadYM[/YT]
[YT]801CketNy1Y[/YT]
[YT]zjBqZfXgvXg[/YT]

Sometimes he will change the vocals up for the sake of sounding completely different. This is primarily when he does death metal remixes of pop songs or Radio Disney remixes of thrash/death metal songs:
[YT]eHo6I_AFCzo[/YT]
[YT]narHqBWkauI[/YT]
[YT]wG6G4XBnvLQ[/YT]
[YT]4bqRpXPy4kM[/YT]

Quote from: MrBogosity on July 04, 2011, 01:02:36 PM
I must say that I enjoyed the episode with him and Andy Dick. It's amazing how much better the episodes got the less they used the main cast...

I don't think it was the main cast that was so much the problem as what the writers did with them. I mean, Voyager had alot of potential. With a good writing team, they could have been amazing. The cast showed they were capable of putting out really good performances here and there.

Quote from: MrBogosity on July 04, 2011, 01:02:36 PM
And Doctor Who never really used it to further the plot like they did.

And Star Trek didn't really start using it to further the plot until later in the franchise's run. And besides, in Doctor Who, it was charming. Almost whimsical. In Trek, it tended to get ridiculous.

Quote from: MrBogosity on July 04, 2011, 01:02:36 PM
And Brannon "Mini-Rick" Braga. They should look to the Stargate series to see how to do it right. When the writers realized they were getting formulaic and predictable around season 4, they started lampooning themselves. They also introduced a lot of new elements to keep the show good.

Agreed with the Stargate reference, but I don't hold Braga in anywhere near the same category as Berman. Braga's main problem was the fact that he wasn't a very good writer in addition to Berman's influence. Braga is a bit like George Lucas in a way. Both can come up with some good ideas now and then, but they need to be moderated by someone who's actually a skilled writer on top. Left to their own devices, though, both come up with some ridiculous story ideas.

Quote from: Virgil0211 on July 06, 2011, 01:00:35 PMI don't think it was the main cast that was so much the problem as what the writers did with them.

True. I mean, what a setup: half the cast ARE FREAKIN' TERRORISTS! Imagine the potential for drama and conflict and all of the numerous episodes upon episodes showing the Star Trek ideal of putting aside your differences and working together!

Except that they all end up being about as threatening as teddy bears and end up behaving EXACTLY like Starfleet crewmembers at the end of Episode 1.

QuoteWith a good writing team, they could have been amazing.

In other words, without Berman/Braga. I think the only good thing you could say about Voyager was that it took up too much of their time and they ended up pretty much leaving DS9 alone to be awesome.

QuoteAnd besides, in Doctor Who, it was charming. Almost whimsical.

Yeah, especially when it didn't work!