Unnamed(?) logical fallacies

Started by MrBogosity, September 24, 2009, 04:12:10 PM

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Another one that occurred to me watching a recent Stefbot video, and I'm calling it the No-Blame Game.

The Blame Game, of course, is when people start blaming each other (Democrats blaming Republicans while Republicans blame Democrats, for example) for the problem instead of just getting to work fixing it.

The No-Blame Game is a fallacy when someone tries to point out the consequences (even unintended) of a policy or action, like the blowback that occurs in the form of terrorism from our interventionist foreign policy. Instead of refuting the connection, the opponents say something like, "So you're blaming America for the 9/11 attacks?" and they use the word "blame" as if you're doing something immature and invalid. It's often done in the name of not playing the Blame Game, even though that's not what's going on.

So unless anyone can come up with a better name for it, I'm gonna go with the No-Blame Game.

I'm pretty sure this one exists but in essence it's the reverse bandwagon (Nobody's ever done this/done it this way before therefor why should this group or person?) like "No society has ever not practiced slavery" or "No franchise has ever had a single continuity across media" therefor it shouldn't be done.

Quote from: tnu on August 05, 2014, 02:33:26 AM
I'm pretty sure this one exists but in essence it's the reverse bandwagon (Nobody's ever done this/done it this way before therefor why should this group or person?) like "No society has ever not practiced slavery" or "No franchise has ever had a single continuity across media" therefor it shouldn't be done.

That's Appeal to Precedent.

The Microcosm Fallacy:

[yt]fRlcWVrMyAw[/yt]

There's the fallacy that if you vote for candidate A that means you're really voting for candidate B which means that Candidate C will end up losing.

I suggest we name this the "That's my cookie!" fallacy because, as Jeffery Bathe of the Illinois Libertarian party puts it...

QuoteWhat they are saying is that if I have a cookie, and I give it to person A, I'm really giving it to person B.
"We plan ahead. That way we don't do anything right now." - Kevin Bacon, Tremors

Quote from: SideProjectJim on October 26, 2014, 11:41:46 AM
There's the fallacy that if you vote for candidate A that means you're really voting for candidate B which means that Candidate C will end up losing.

I suggest we name this the "That's my cookie!" fallacy because, as Jeffery Bathe of the Illinois Libertarian party puts it...
Basically the 'spoiler' effect that many republicans (and democrats) keep bitching about, right?
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Quote from: Travis Retriever on October 26, 2014, 11:44:15 AM
Basically the 'spoiler' effect that many republicans (and democrats) keep bitching about, right?
Drat, there is a name.  I like "That's my cookie!" though.  Yep, that's the one.
"We plan ahead. That way we don't do anything right now." - Kevin Bacon, Tremors

Quote from: SideProjectJim on October 26, 2014, 11:41:46 AM
There's the fallacy that if you vote for candidate A that means you're really voting for candidate B which means that Candidate C will end up losing.

I suggest we name this the "That's my cookie!" fallacy because, as Jeffery Bathe of the Illinois Libertarian party puts it...

QuoteWhat they are saying is that if I have a cookie, and I give it to person A, I'm really giving it to person B.

And that you're stealing a cookie from person C.

Quote from: MrBogosity on January 08, 2014, 07:12:08 AM
I was talking on Facebook with tnu and we agreed this one should be a fallacy:

You're talking to someone about something paranormal or whatever, and they tell you to be open-minded. When you give them your refutation, they respond dismissively with, "Oh, there you go again!" or even hostility: "Why do you have to keep attacking my beliefs?" So, the skeptic has to be open-minded that they might be right, but THEY don't have to be open-minded that they might be WRONG.

I'll do some research; this is so common it HAS to be a listed fallacy somewhere. If not, I guess we'll add it as the Open-Minded Fallacy.
QFT.  it's something a lot of furs would do well to learn. >.<* It always works one way, never both ways.

And related to that:

Quote from: MrBogosity on January 09, 2012, 03:33:23 PM
This is some kind of corollary of the Nirvana Fallacy or something:

"This works!"

"[example of it not working]"

"Okay, it's not perfect..."

It's like it's ALMOST a Best Game In Town fallacy, except they don't actually state the last part. This is essentially writing off any counter-examples as being freak exceptions.
Okay, this one NEEDS a name.   I talk to two furs I know about how I don't think the furry fandom is the best thing for my social development and maturity and they both whip out the "well nothing is perfect" card.  Despite that pretense being NOWHERE in my original post (the one where I talk about libertarian friendly communities).  At the very least, it's a bullshit strawman.  I'm considering naming it the Simple Plan Fallacy, because it reminds me of this song:  [yt]RUi54JTgL5s[/yt] (warning: super angsty)
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Quote from: MrBogosity on October 27, 2009, 10:27:09 AM
Yes, I've actually heard people claim that when someone gets into power, their good instincts kick in and they're far better people than they ever would be in private life. Wouldn't that count as a miracle?
Oy.  And people wonder why we call statism a religion.  Or statism "The Cult of the Omnipotent State."
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Quote from: MrBogosity on January 08, 2014, 07:12:08 AM
I was talking on Facebook with tnu and we agreed this one should be a fallacy:

You're talking to someone about something paranormal or whatever, and they tell you to be open-minded. When you give them your refutation, they respond dismissively with, "Oh, there you go again!" or even hostility: "Why do you have to keep attacking my beliefs?" So, the skeptic has to be open-minded that they might be right, but THEY don't have to be open-minded that they might be WRONG.

I'll do some research; this is so common it HAS to be a listed fallacy somewhere. If not, I guess we'll add it as the Open-Minded Fallacy.

Indeed.  As I said on twitter and facebook:

I also love how it's being "closed minded" when I don't just unconditionally accept what someone says as fact, yet they're not being a closed minded dick when they're not open to the possibility that they might be wrong.
‪#‎DoYouEvenBasicFuckingLogic‬ ‪#‎Hypocrites‬ ‪#‎DoubleStandards‬ ‪#‎DoYouEvenBayesian‬
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

The oppression/victim card.  Cry that you're being oppressed when someone calls you out on your bullshit in an attempt to win sympathy and silence the dissenter.  SJWs/feminists are notorious for this, as are many Muslims, Christians (esp. Young Earth Creationists), and hell, most types of woo in general.

A fallacy because:  it's a red herring even if it is true, and even then, it rarely if ever is.  I find just about every time this card is pulled out, it's also projection as well, via Sargon's Law.
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

I remember the Hofstadter-Moebius Loop from 2010: Odyssey Two, but I never thought of it in this way:

http://lance-wandering.blogspot.com/2013/09/the-hofstadter-moebius-loop.html

The political ramifications are obvious. It's dangerous to be armed, unless you're the police. If you do drugs you go to jail, but a celebrity goes into rehab and a politician goes on the campaign trail. Related to Special Pleading and the Democracy Fallacy.

An example of a more complex Hofstadter-Moebius Loop, from The Incredible Bread Machine: "You're gouging on your prices if you charge more than the rest / but it's unfair competittion if you think you can charge less / A second point that we would make, to help avoid confusion / Don't try to charge the same amount--that would be collusion!"

It could also be used as a way around not having a defense for your bogosity: take a homeopathic "remedy"; if you get better, it worked. If you stay the same, it arrested the problem. If you get worse, you didn't use enough. Same with economic stimulus.

Psychologically speaking, the Hofstadter-Moebius Loop is a form of schizophrenia, resulting in holding conflicting beliefs or dealing with conflicting orders and trying to keep it all through cognitive dissonance.

I hereby nominate it as a formal fallacy.

I second this!  ;D
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

This seems related to the Leeches fallacy you bring up now and again.
Failing to clean up my own mistakes since the early 80s.