Author Topic: Fav quotes  (Read 751844 times)

Travis Retriever

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #225 on: February 12, 2010, 09:15:07 PM »
It's very simple: government is force. Therefore, government is legitimate only where the use of force is legitimate, and in no other way. Since the initiation of force is illegitimate, the government can't do it. Defense isn't an initiation of force; welfare is.
"welfare is."
Well, when done by the state by theft (taxes).
Remember, though, Rothbard is talking about a coercive monopoly, initiating force (taxes taken at gun point) to provide a service, defense.
He's not talking about whether or not the service should exist or not.

Here are two videos talking about this, or at least act as food for thought:


« Last Edit: February 12, 2010, 09:21:39 PM by surhotchaperchlorome »
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Lord T Hawkeye

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #226 on: February 13, 2010, 01:55:56 AM »
Because he's advocating an outright ban in the videos...
That's the part I take issue with.
The use of state force for illegitimate reasons.

Here's the difficult thing.  We all know the burka is backed by cohesion.  Even if the women say they're cool with it, the cohesion is still there because we all know what happens to a muslim woman who refuses to wear it.

It's the same problem as "When is it okay to intervene on an abusive spouse when the abused person won't press charges?"
I recently heard that the word heretic is derived from the greek work heriticos which means "able to choose"
The more you know...

Travis Retriever

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #227 on: February 13, 2010, 02:12:32 AM »
Here's the difficult thing.  We all know the burka is backed by cohesion.  Even if the women say they're cool with it, the cohesion is still there because we all know what happens to a muslim woman who refuses to wear it.

It's the same problem as "When is it okay to intervene on an abusive spouse when the abused person won't press charges?"
In other words, by duress.
OK, I think I see your point.
But I still don't see how that begets the state to use preemptive aggression on their behalf.
The Muslim women, like anyone else, are responsible for themselves and for their own defense.
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Lord T Hawkeye

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #228 on: February 13, 2010, 02:27:15 AM »
Yes, banning the burka is really missing the target but what should be done instead?  A message does need to be sent that "You're free to live here but you don't get to treat women or anyone for that matter like possessions.  That's not acceptable here."
I recently heard that the word heretic is derived from the greek work heriticos which means "able to choose"
The more you know...

Virgil0211

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #229 on: February 13, 2010, 02:47:26 AM »
Yes, banning the burka is really missing the target but what should be done instead?  A message does need to be sent that "You're free to live here but you don't get to treat women or anyone for that matter like possessions.  That's not acceptable here."

Well, at least in Texas, the prosecutor is able to bring charges against the abusive spouse if he/she believes there is enough evidence to convict (or, as they phrase it, enough evidence to reasonably conclude that the husband committed the crime and a conviction can reasonably be obtained).

The best method would probably be private/charitable attempts at education, providing safe havens, etc. Maybe make it easier for women to obtain restraining orders against their husbands? Just throwing out ideas here.

MrBogosity

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #230 on: February 13, 2010, 07:41:04 AM »
Here's the difficult thing.  We all know the burka is backed by cohesion.  Even if the women say they're cool with it, the cohesion is still there because we all know what happens to a muslim woman who refuses to wear it.

It's the same problem as "When is it okay to intervene on an abusive spouse when the abused person won't press charges?"

But if you ban burkas, then aren't you fighting a symptom and not the cause?

Lord T Hawkeye

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #231 on: February 13, 2010, 09:55:35 AM »
But if you ban burkas, then aren't you fighting a symptom and not the cause?

Yes, that's why I said in the next post that banning the burka is missing the real target.
I recently heard that the word heretic is derived from the greek work heriticos which means "able to choose"
The more you know...

MrBogosity

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #232 on: February 13, 2010, 10:03:44 AM »
"Why do we even have newspapers?" --My daughter

IceSage

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #233 on: February 13, 2010, 10:19:06 AM »
"Why do we even have newspapers?" --My daughter

So domesticated pets who can't go outside yet have something to potty train with so the carpet doesn't get messy, duh!

Lord T Hawkeye

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #234 on: February 14, 2010, 09:59:19 AM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again and I will keep saying until people get it into their heads. Anyone who speaks of profit like it's a dirty word is a hypocrite. Every single one of us who have any contact with society whatsoever makes profit off the needs of another. This is a GOOD thing! It's what binds us together.
Anyone who tells you it's a bad thing is doing so for his benefit, not yours. - Me
I recently heard that the word heretic is derived from the greek work heriticos which means "able to choose"
The more you know...

MrBogosity

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #235 on: February 14, 2010, 10:35:30 AM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again and I will keep saying until people get it into their heads. Anyone who speaks of profit like it's a dirty word is a hypocrite. Every single one of us who have any contact with society whatsoever makes profit off the needs of another. This is a GOOD thing! It's what binds us together.
Anyone who tells you it's a bad thing is doing so for his benefit, not yours. - Me

I love it! One of my faves now, too.

Travis Retriever

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #236 on: February 14, 2010, 01:29:06 PM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again and I will keep saying until people get it into their heads. Anyone who speaks of profit like it's a dirty word is a hypocrite. Every single one of us who have any contact with society whatsoever makes profit off the needs of another. This is a GOOD thing! It's what binds us together.
Anyone who tells you it's a bad thing is doing so for his benefit, not yours. - Me
Outstanding quote, dude. :)
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Travis Retriever

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #237 on: February 17, 2010, 12:56:44 AM »
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value -- zero." --Voltaire - 1729
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

The Late Andrew Ryan

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #238 on: February 18, 2010, 11:42:57 AM »
"The state is the great fictitious entity by which everyone seeks to live at the expense of everyone else."
-Frederic Bastiat

"I believe in no God, no invisible man in the sky. But there is something more powerful in each of us, a combination of our efforts, a great chain of industry that unites us. But it is only when we struggle in our own interests that the chain pulls society in the right direction. The chain is too powerful and too mysterious for any government to guide. Any man who tells you differently either has his hand in your pocket or a pistol to your neck."
-Andrew Ryan, Bioshock

"A man who chooses between drinking a glass of milk and a glass of a solution of potassium cyanide does not choose between two beverages; he chooses between life and death. A society that chooses between capitalism and socialism does not choose between two social systems; it chooses between social cooperation and the disintegration of society. Socialism is not an alternative to capitalism; it is an alternative to any system under which men can live as human beings."
-Ludwig Von Mises

"Democracy is not, cannot be, and has never been anything more than glorified mob rule. It is the taking of an institution originally founded as a way for a group of religious military leaders to gain tribute from those that they subjugated by force, and turning it into a great popularity contest. Democracy is not pure; it is not sacred unless one considers a mob sacred. Democracy is not freedom unless one considers 4 men voting another 2 into slavery freedom, and indeed unless one agrees that the American slave trade was freedom. Democracy is the barbaric practice of having 51% of the population to put a gun to the head of the other 49%. Democracy takes humankind’s oldest lie and turns it into a virtue to be sold off to those with the best speaking abilities and most appealing promises.”
-Me
"Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?"

MrBogosity

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #239 on: February 18, 2010, 04:35:29 PM »
I don't know if I posted this or not:

Democracy: Two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

Representative Democracy: Two thousand wolves and one thousand sheep electing two wolves and a sheep, who vote on what's for dinner.

Constitutional Republic: Two thousand wolves and one thousand sheep electing two wolves and a sheep, who vote on what's for dinner, but are restrained by a Constitution which states that they cannot eat sheep. The Supreme Court then determines (in a five wolves to four sheep ruling) that mutton does not count as sheep.

Liberty: Well-armed sheep contesting the above votes.

--Me (based on an old saying)