Author Topic: Fav quotes  (Read 1096293 times)

Travis Retriever

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #345 on: May 16, 2010, 04:53:34 PM »
"The State! Always and ever the government and its rulers and opera­tors have been considered above the general moral law. The 'Pentagon Papers' are only one recent instance among innumerable instances in history of men, most of whom are perfectly honorable in their private lives, who lie in their teeth before the public. Why? For 'reasons of State.' Service to the State is supposed to excuse all actions that would be considered immoral or criminal if committed by 'private' citizens. The distinctive feature of libertarians is that they coolly and uncompro­misingly apply the general moral law to people acting in their roles as members of the State apparatus. Libertarians make no exceptions. For centuries, the State (or more strictly, individuals acting in their roles as 'members of the government') has cloaked its criminal activity in high-sounding rhetoric. For centuries the State has committed mass murder and called it 'war'; then ennobled the mass slaughter that 'war' involves. For centuries the State has enslaved people into its armed battalions and called it 'conscription' in the 'national service.' For centuries the State has robbed people at bayonet [gun-] point and called it 'taxation.' In fact, if you wish to know how libertarians regard the State and any of its acts, simply think of the State as a criminal band, and all of the libertarian attitudes will logically fall into place." -- Murray Rothbard

"Off goes the head of the king, and tyranny gives way to freedom. The change seems abysmal. Then, bit by bit, the face of freedom hardens, and by and by it is the old face of tyranny. Then another cycle, and another. But under the play of all these opposites there is something fundamental and permanent — the basic delusion that men may be governed and yet be free."--H. L. Mencken

"It doesn't seem to me that people who are serious about freedom can indulge themselves too much longer in the fantasy that freedom can be advanced through politics without the risk of doing themselves substantial hurt. Politics are the dynamic of government, government is theft and slavery, and we can achieve freedom through political action like we can achieve celibacy through rape."--Victor Milan
I don't necessarily agree with this one, however, it's still a fav because it makes a nice point.

In his "I spend a lot of time thinking about" section of his profile:
"How anyone can believe Socialism is motivated by benevolence. The very premise of Socialism has always disgusted me to my core:

'Socialism is the doctrine that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that his life and his work do not belong to him, but belong to society, that the only justification of his existence is his service to society, and that society may dispose of him in any way it pleases for the sake of whatever it deems to be its own tribal, collective good.'--Ayn Rand"

"Democracy, and how I hate how total fucking dumb asses' votes count as much as mine; and how much I hate the evil premise of democracy:

You belong to everyone else."
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 11:42:22 AM by Travis Retriever »
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Travis Retriever

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #346 on: May 16, 2010, 04:57:05 PM »
"When most people I hear in my daily life discuss politics or anything dealing with government in general this is all I hear:

'Blah, blah, blah, I'm going to send men with guns to your house and coerce you to do as I say. Take your money to spend on whatever I think is a better use of it, and to add insult to injury, I'm going to pretend its my right to do such, and call you selfish, evil, and un-American for just wanting to be free and left alone!'"

"I like turtles." (What? It made me laugh.)
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Travis Retriever

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #347 on: May 16, 2010, 05:11:35 PM »
All of the following will be from the "You should message me if" section of Mike's profile:

"First off you shouldn't message [me] if:

You are some pseudo 'rebel'. All you Democrat douche bags piss me off more than the Republicans do. At least Republicans don't pretend to be against the status quo, and 'hate' the government. You guys sure loved the government during the shitty Clinton years. I don't remember any of you commie red democrat douche-bags having any complaints about any of Clinton's little wars. Just come out and admit it, you only think war is bad when the war president has a 'R' next to his name. War is waged for good and noble reasons when waged by a democrat. Give me a fucking break. What pisses me off about you people the most is how you harp about how the Republicans are such tools, and how enlightened and good you are. In reality, you are the biggest fucking tools around. Stop pretending you are fighting the status quo, YOU ARE THE STATUS QUO!

You support Barack Obama for president, and think he is for change. I'm getting so sick of hearing about how great Obama is, and how much 'change' will happen. Obama is an evil calculating politician, like all the rest. I hope he wins so all you ass-hats will be so disappointed when he doesn't bring our troops home, and sends more troops to Afghanistan and all the other places he wants to send them. Looks like when Obama talks about change he just meant changing where we send our troops. He voted for the bail out. You Obama-zombies are so naive. I will not be voting for this socialist war monger.

You think John McCain is the lesser evil. John McCain is as much as a socialist war monger as his buddy Barack Obama. If you can't understand this simple fact, I have no desire to waste time conversing with you.

People who believe the problem is Bush, and just the Republican party. Yes I will admit Bush is PART of the problem, and he needs to meet justice. What you fucktards don't realize is, there was a problem before Bush, and there will still be one no matter what establishment crony wins this sham we call elections.

I do not care what your personal opinions of guns are. But if you think that dislike of something gives you the right to disarm people, move along tyrant. I'm sure its clear from my words there are MANY things I dislike, but you don't see me advocating their prohibition, do you?

If you think Lincoln was a good president and great human being, please go kill yourself.

You support 'Anarchist' Communism. That is a oxymoron if there ever was one. So tell me how you plan on smashing a naturally arising [and therefore default] system like Capitalism, without a massive state?... I never see anyone besides fellow Market Anarchists falling on the 'Anarchist' section, you people always land down on socialist, where you statist swines belong.

I would like to make clear, I have no problem whatsoever with any VOLUNTARY, socialism or communism. As long as everyone consents, it is fine with me.

I have nothing but hatred for all new age bullshit. From astrology, to healing crystals, Feng Shui, or whatever else your trendy ass is claiming to believe in to show how cultured and enlightened you are. New agers are the most pretentious cunts I have ever come across. Total fucking tools.

Eastern religious people tend to annoy the shit out of me, as they tend to be liberal types that want to be fashionable and adopt some westernized version of some Eastern philosophy so they don't have to call themselves 'atheist' or 'agnostic'. And related to my hatred of New Age especially is Wiccans and those Neo-Pagan treehugger morons that adopt their beliefs because they got into an argument with their mothers and want to piss them off. You know they're almost always teenage girls with mommy issues. At least someone who is, Christian, Jewish, etc is doing it because they believe in or were raised that way, not just to be an elitist prick, "cultured", "open minded" or a "free thinker."

People with blind hatred of Capitalism. I'm so sick of people who clearly have never bothered to read an economics book but yet have strong opinions and knee jerk reactions to Capitalism while not even understanding it and confusing it for Corporatism or some bastardized version of a so-called 'free market'.

If you have ever said in conversations these lines:
'There ought to be law against that!' or 'The government should do something about that!' particularly in regards to some bullshit notion of 'social justice' or protecting people from themselves; we will NOT get along."
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 01:12:02 AM by surhotchaperchlorome »
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Travis Retriever

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #348 on: May 16, 2010, 05:15:14 PM »
"Now you should message me if:

You do not advocate [the initiation of] force to achieve your ends.

You do not want to take/steal my property or have others do it for you, including people called the state, for any reason.

You are not an absolute ethical subjectivist (insofar that you believe 'anything goes' and that you can do whatever you want) or an utilitarian.

You don't view human lives and their property as just a calculation in your cost-benefit analysis.

You have a passion for Justice.

You value Justice over 'tolerance' and 'acceptance.'

'Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.'-- G.K Chesterton

You are tolerant of other forms of organization and interaction than the kind that you promote.

You long for things as they could and should be, regardless of how things are.

You reject democracy and view it as another form of control over the individual. Might does not make right--no man, or group of men in any size or number, has any right to command another man for the sheer reason that that view is popular. If the lynch mob kills a man simply because he is unpopular, it is murder all the same, even if that mob consisted of every other person."

Woo!
That was long.
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Travis Retriever

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #349 on: May 16, 2010, 05:18:16 PM »
















The philosophy of Utilitarianism:
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Travis Retriever

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #350 on: May 19, 2010, 05:42:36 PM »
"A common retort to anti-statism is that it is Utopian.  The people making this assertion seem to think that anti-statists believe that getting rid of the state will abolish all initiations of force, stop all robbery, stop all fraud and solve all problems.
However, this is not so.
We simply believe that stopping the initiations of force, robbery, fraud and problems caused by the state would be an outstanding start in the right direction, and a necessary one if we are to progress into society." --Me
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 02:17:05 AM by surhotchaperchlorome »
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Travis Retriever

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #351 on: May 19, 2010, 07:16:25 PM »
In response to the first 1 minutes, 55 seconds of this video:

"Actually, Mr. Rothbard, I can make this even easier for you.
War is justified if and only if:

1. It is a purely defensive war: no preemptive 'we need to fight them there so we don't have to fight them here' bullshit.
2. The people fighting in it and funding it do so on a voluntary basis alone.
3. If all other peaceful measures and options have been tried and failed.
4. If it does not involve meddling in the affairs of others.

Your basis of 'overthrowing an oppressive power' could be used to justify the BS that is the Iraq invasion.
As it is given as a justification for the Iraq War, and for the Cold War--which you yourself oppose."
« Last Edit: February 06, 2011, 01:18:02 AM by surhotchaperchlorome »
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Gumba Masta

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #352 on: May 20, 2010, 01:16:03 AM »
There are a lot of doors being opend and shut with creaking noises.

Travis Retriever

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #353 on: May 21, 2010, 06:39:45 PM »
This entire video is a fav quote.
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Travis Retriever

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #354 on: May 21, 2010, 07:17:15 PM »
As is this journal entry by Militant-Mike1 (just giving credit where it's due).
I will bold the part that is my favorite:

Quote
Spontaneous Order

Jun. 15, 2009

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KECcfKViog

 "liberty not the daughter but the mother of order," - Pierre-Joseph Proudhon

 

I loved this video, but have two major complaints with it.

1. Anti-religious where it really doesn't need to be.  I don't care for religion myself, but I don't see why there would cease to be religion in an anarchist society. Religion is voluntary, and some religious people are also anarchists.

2. At the end the videos it asks if Anarchy is practical now, and it says no for now it is utopia. I take issue with this part because of poor wording.  Anarchy is impractical now, not because it cannot work, but because people are not anarchists. Until people reject the notion of states, we will not have our 'anarchy' long. Let's say we smashed the state tomorrow, without first converting humanity to be anarchistic, they would still be statists, disorder would take place, they would blame anarchists, say that statism is right, and demand a strong leader to bring them order, and a Hitler type would rise to meet that demand and would have much popular support. The way the video words it makes it sound like they are saying anarchism is unpractical now, and doesn't explain at all by what they mean.

In spite of these 2 things I'd give this video A-
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

MrBogosity

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #355 on: May 21, 2010, 08:17:24 PM »
Isn't his point #2 exactly what communists say?

Travis Retriever

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #356 on: May 21, 2010, 08:23:44 PM »
Isn't his point #2 exactly what communists say?

Now that you mention it, you do have a good point about that.
Oh well.
It did and still does remind me of a point you and others have made:  rulers can only rule for the long run if they are perceived as legitimate (assuming of course the population isn't already crippled but that's another story).
Therefore, we need to spread the word about free market economics in order to help correct so much of the garbage and dogmatic bullshit about economics out there to help undermine the legitimacy of rulers.
Or something or other. :P

EDIT:  Just for the heck of it, I'm going to ask him that and see what he says back.
He's a pretty arrogant and rude guy, but assuming his response has any substance (which I hope it does), I want to see what it is.
I'll post the reply in this thread.

EDIT 2:  Granted, I didn't watch the video, but I have a sneaking suspicion there is a conflation of Anomie = Anarchy.
Maybe.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 08:37:17 PM by surhotchaperchlorome »
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Travis Retriever

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #357 on: May 21, 2010, 09:03:45 PM »
Regarding the video.
0:30 - OK, the definition used is the original definition of anarchy.  This could be problematic simply because of how vague it is.
What exactly is a "ruler"?  Am I the ruler of my property because I have the right to use it in ways that people who don't own it have (remembering that rights and responsibilities thing) giving rise to Anarcho-Communism for example?
E.G.: the head of a house-hold?
Or a business owner?
While the definition is a nice start, I simply don't like how vague it is.
I prefer the definition more akin to anti-statism on my profile:

"state (n.): A geopolitical monopoly on the 'legitimate' initiation of force, insofar as the use of first-strike force would be considered illegitimate if used via people who aren't acting as agents of the state; an extortion racket; a legitimized mafia"

0:32 through 1:36 - OK, more vagueness.  First off, I personally (and other anti-statists) don't mind the idea of leaders, even "dictators", "kings" etc, so long as they are voluntary (e.g. don't use the initiation of force for funds).
There is nothing wrong with leaders, so long as they are voluntary is the point here.

1:36 through 2:49 -Well, that's a nice example, but anti-statism, in addition to being a free market in all none-force services (e.g. medicine, education, goods, etc) would also be a free market in societal varieties as well.
Anarchy is emergent.  So you could have any number of different possibilities with arrangements, not just the ones shown there.
I know he shows it as an example, but this point really needs to be noted.  Anarchy/Anti-statism is a negative state.

2:50 until the last few seconds - His point is somewhat contradicting though.  'C' wants "free stuff" so they...buy weapons and risk their lives voluntarily to try and secure said "free" goods?
Also, there CAN be police, courts, military, etc in a stateless society.  There would just be competition among them (e.g. by service payments, or whatever other voluntary payment method people come up with).
What's more, I recall a video by ConfederalSocialist.  He noted that Iraq war is taking more than Iraq's entire GDP.  Remembering that war is expensive (especially if NOT done in pure self defense-just look at our own country), and the fact that because there would be very limited wealth creation (as resources go from the creation of wealth to the destruction of wealth) if any at all, it would be very hard, if not impossible for 'C' to maintain that offensive war for any extended period.
Unless of course they form a state, but then, they'd have to deal with the rest of the "country", and because they would have been more free, other things equal, they'd have more wealth to spend of defense.
I think you see where this is going.

4:27 through 4:33 - But notice how he never says WHY he thinks it is Utopian.
He merely states his opinion that it is.
Other Anti-statists such as Stefbot and opheliaic have rebutted this.  As such, I will not address this assertion.

So my grade will probably have to be a B-, or a C+.
It was above "average" in that he noted that Anarchy does not imply chaos, anomie, etc, but the vagueness, lack of economic considerations, and lack of emphasis on emergent voluntaryism, really cost him.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 09:07:05 PM by surhotchaperchlorome »
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Lord T Hawkeye

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #358 on: May 23, 2010, 07:56:09 PM »
Sick of Nightmare's gov worshipping tirades, I decided to throw some back at him.

When his PM to me included this gem...

"And quite frankly, it's more imoral to make people pay thousends up front to get injuries treated."

I decided to do a quick calculation...

Quote
I found this quote of particular interest and decided to get out the calculator.

According to CBC news report, Canada's healthcare budget for 2005 was 41 billion dollars.
Canada's population is 33.3 million.  Divide and the total is 1231$ per year approximately.  (Canada's healthcare budget actually increases every year so I'm in fact being generous with these numbers)

This means, that every man, woman and child in Canada is taxed 1231$ per year to pay for healthcare.  So, even if everyone in Canada got sick or injured once every five years, that means we would be charged 6000$ per treatment...

In truth, people on average get sick or injured significantly less than that so this number is actually much higher.

So....what was that you were saying about charging people thousands for treatment being immoral?  Hmm?

I hope I did this right...
I recently heard that the word heretic is derived from the greek work heriticos which means "able to choose"
The more you know...

Travis Retriever

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Re: Fav quotes
« Reply #359 on: May 23, 2010, 09:10:22 PM »
Sick of Nightmare's gov worshipping tirades, I decided to throw some back at him.

When his PM to me included this gem...

"And quite frankly, it's more imoral to make people pay thousends up front to get injuries treated."

I decided to do a quick calculation...

I hope I did this right...

I thought you did pretty good.
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537