Illiberal progressives - Last Sargon video - Political spectrum

[AdeptusHereticus]

Here's the link to his last video named "illiberal progressives"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH0mPfR-K2U

Interesting one and quite long, for those of you who don't follow him, it is about the incoherence between a strict liberal mindset and the political views of the progressive left.

There is a lot that could be discussed in this video but the first thing I want to ask you is about the political spectrum bit at around 1.02.00. Sargon is placing the anarcho-capitalists at the bottom right end. In my mind, it sounds wierd, because it would mean that on the bottom left end, you have socialists. The problem I have with that, obviously I think, is that it would mean that you can advocate goverment oversight and involvement when being at the very bottom of the graph, which makes no sense. The more down you get, the more libertarian you are. If you are this libertarian, then how is it consistent to argue for that kind of policy ? Now, I think my reasoning here is sound, but since i've seen that part of the video I have trouble navigating the graph ...

So to me, anarcho-capitalists have always been on the very tip of the libertarian arrow, because they advocate abolutely no government oversight in any area. This position have to be at the very opposite of the authoritarian arrow tip and equally distant from the "rightest" views and the "leftest"views.

Can you guys chime in on that and shed some light for me ?

[MrBogosity]

That's just the Political Compass bullshit again. I swear, that thing's caused FAR more harm than good...

[Ibrahim90]

That's just the Political Compass bullshit again. I swear, that thing's caused FAR more harm than good...

What this guy said.

Coincidentally, I just watched his video. Overall, I find him (as I usually do), to be sometimes naive* and idealistic, and his use of that chart (and the classification of An-caps as being on the right) being just an example. his definition sounds like a less philosophical version of what people here believe in too, though this might be because Liberalism in Europe might mean something other than it does here (or the Arab World). Someone should just send him that one quiz we found a couple years ago--that one was half-decent (might have to dig it up): that would translate whatever he's saying into something an American (or Arab) would understand.

He's certainly spot on that the so-called "progressives" are anti-liberty, and his explanations and examples to this point I agree with.  He's also right to state that the political dispute is really about collectivism v. individualism, though the details certainly are not what I'd agree with (like for example equating an-caps with the right).


*perhaps even gullible. Srsly, Harris a Liberal? if we go by Sargon's own criterion, and knowing what I do know, he's not: I mean, fuck, what man who believes in individual rights advocates racial profiling (didn't Shane make a video about this where he uses Baysian methods?), among other things?

[MrBogosity]

What this guy said.

Coincidentally, I just watched his video. Overall, I find him (as I usually do), to be sometimes naive* and idealistic, and his use of that chart (and the classification of An-caps as being on the right) being just an example. his definition sounds like a less philosophical version of what people here believe in too, though this might be because Liberalism in Europe might mean something other than it does here (or the Arab World). Someone should just send him that one quiz we found a couple years ago--that one was half-decent (might have to dig it up): that would translate whatever he's saying into something an American (or Arab) would understand.

You mean the WSPQ? http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz/quiz.php?iframe=true&width=850&height=100%

*perhaps even gullible. Srsly, Harris a Liberal? if we go by Sargon's own criterion, and knowing what I do know, he's not: I mean, fuck, what man who believes in individual rights advocates racial profiling (didn't Shane make a video about this where he uses Baysian methods?), among other things?

I certainly did!

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[AdeptusHereticus]

He has said a lot of things that make me cringe, but the AnCap problem is pretty minor because it doesn't really affect the rest of his discourse I think. The thing is, I've never seen him interact with a libertarian, so I really don't know where he fails to understand the issue ... Well, I've never seen him interact with a libertarian about libertarianism. There is one video with Karen Straughan but obviously they talked about feminism, gamergate etc.

[ArtemisVale]

He has said a lot of things that make me cringe, but the AnCap problem is pretty minor because it doesn't really affect the rest of his discourse I think. The thing is, I've never seen him interact with a libertarian, so I really don't know where he fails to understand the issue ... Well, I've never seen him interact with a libertarian about libertarianism. There is one video with Karen Straughan but obviously they talked about feminism, gamergate etc.

He did a video with that guy T once

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[AdeptusHereticus]

Nice, I might watch that in the near future. I'm surprised I missed it though.

[Ibrahim90]

You mean the WSPQ? http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz/quiz.php?iframe=true&width=850&height=100%

yep--that's the one! there was another one too: I just found the link to it, but it doesn't work anymore: it related political positions to parties.

I certainly did!

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yep--and so that there's no confusion: having read the article (years ago), the guy was implying that people with "Near Eastern features" (whatever that means) should be the ones searched (he didn't directly say it, but how else do you explain "Muslim Looking"? seems harmless at first...till you think about it.

[AdeptusHereticus]

yep--that's the one! there was another one too: I just found the link to it, but it doesn't work anymore: it related political positions to parties.

Maybe some of you remember it, but I already talked about Sargon and the political compass once in the past, when he did a video on this topic specifically. He had found one on the net, was answering a quite large number of questions and I thought they were lacking. Shane suggested the same test he did on this thread. I posted a comment on Sargon's video, asking if he'd be willing to take that test too, because I was curious to see the result and compare it to the one he took in the video. Never answered it ... Too bad.

[MrBogosity]

yep--and so that there's no confusion: having read the article (years ago), the guy was implying that people with "Near Eastern features" (whatever that means) should be the ones searched (he didn't directly say it, but how else do you explain "Muslim Looking"? seems harmless at first...till you think about it.

Yeah, that whole "But 'Muslim' isn't a race!" retort never really did anything for me. We KNOW what you're talking about, so stop acting coy!

[Ibrahim90]

Maybe some of you remember it, but I already talked about Sargon and the political compass once in the past, when he did a video on this topic specifically. He had found one on the net, was answering a quite large number of questions and I thought they were lacking. Shane suggested the same test he did on this thread. I posted a comment on Sargon's video, asking if he'd be willing to take that test too, because I was curious to see the result and compare it to the one he took in the video. Never answered it ... Too bad.

Considering the sheer number of subscribers he has, I'd figure he simply didn't notice your comment. I mean, I posted several comments about Near Eastern History correcting him (like the one time he made me laugh when he compared Caliphs to popes--actually the nearest comparison would be to the Roman Emperors in Constantinople), but no reply. 

apparently video responses are most effective, but it would have to be from a big-wig.

Yeah, that whole "But 'Muslim' isn't a race!" retort never really did anything for me. We KNOW what you're talking about, so stop acting coy!

That's incidentally is the the other reason I think SoA is naive: he is clearly personally honest when he criticizes Islam, keeping it to theology and law, and even proposing causes of current issues as well as methods of reform (inept as they are), but fails to realize that not every person claiming to do the same is necessarily as honest. Quite a few are clearly using this as a smokescreen--alas.