Okay, this is getting old...

[Virgil0211]

This may just be me ranting while in a bad mood, but I feel this needs to be addressed.

What in the flying fuck is going on with people? I mean, Thunderf00t, DPRJones, FSAtheist, TheAmazingAtheist, RationalWiki, TheLeageOfReason, even JREF's forum. How did libertarianism get this negative baggage? I mean, I just don't understand it. It's almost enough to make you think there was a conspiracy of some kind.

Any thoughts on how this happened and how to counteract it?

I had a daydream once where we all just abandoned the label "Libertarian" and just renamed it "Individualism".

[Travis Retriever]

Wow...

You mean TF, DPRJones, FSAtheist, TJ, etc, etc, are STILL going on about it to this day??? wtf?
Well, to cut to the chase, I really don't have much idea how we can counteract this bullshit of theirs.
Well, as for how the world sees Libertarians, at least the bad side of it...
at the risk freaking anyone out (the reason for the NSFW thing too):  http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Libertarianism . This seems to give a rather...in your face kind of overview of what people seem to think as being what we stand for...I'm not suggesting that that's where TF and them are getting their information from, but I figured it might shed some light into what they are thinking.

I honestly wish TF and the rest of them would just...fucking...respond to us personally and stop this passive aggressive bullshit.  I mean, TJ has blasted people for being "pussies" before, while TF hates people spreading misinformation yet they're doing JUST that... What cheek...

Well, I don't think relabeling would work.  It sure hasn't for the socialists/communists/liberals/progressives, or for the ID proponents (sorry to burst your daydream bubble ^^; )

[Virgil0211]

It's okay. The day-dreaming is primarily to relieve stress while I'm at work. I swear, after I leave Wal-Mart, I never want to "zone" another cat food aisle ever again. Or dog shampoo aisle. Or dog-toy aisle (do people have to let their kids throw the chew toys everywhere?).

Anyway, I guess I was wondering why it seems to be so pervasive in skeptical/atheist communities. Maybe it's just a flaw with my sample group, but I can't help but feel like libertarians are a minority among atheists. Is there some influence that "progressive/liberal" thinking has on the skeptical/atheist community that libertarianism doesn't? Is it partially the result of the Republicans labeling themselves as the fiscally conservative "moral majority"?

Getting hit with a problem like this and not knowing what's causing it... It's like getting slapped in a dark room. You have no idea where it came from, who did it, etc. It's unsettling.

[MrBogosity]

All I know is, I tried for several years on the JREF forum to set the record straight. You can look through the old posts and see the abuse--including one-sided moderation--I received for my efforts.

[Travis Retriever]

Well, I guess it might have something to do with people associating anything considered conservative (something people think that Libertarianism is via guilt by association of redneck type people) to be oppressive, anti-science, and anti-human.
I suppose...I couldn't say for sure.
As for TF, TAA and them, it could have something to do with HowTheWorldWorks, but after reading Shane's post, I doubt that's entirely why...

[FSBlueApocalypse]

I think one of the biggest hang ups is that most people don't understand just what a free market is. They simply assume that the US is a free market by default and think that is what Libertarians are talking about. Also, I don't think a lot of people know just what Libertarians stand for. In popular media, "Libertarians" range from crazy bastards like Glenn Beck to Bill Maher who says "I consider myself a Libertarian but" then goes on a rant about gun control or how the free market is horrible.

[MrBogosity]

The thing is, I've made videos explaining it, and people make the same "mistakes" in the comments of those very videos! Then there are some (most recently gorypleasure) who steadfastly REFUSED to watch the other videos, and then kept saying that I refused to make an argument! He was told the arguments were in the videos!

These people are dogmatists. They don't WANT to learn.

[Lord T Hawkeye]

I get that all the time.  Much like when Bill Maher was describing Ron Paul.

"You know, nobody ever says to him 'no, that's factually incorrect' or anything.  No, the reaction is always more like 'oh god..this guy's going to make us have to think isn't he?'"

As for encyclopedia dramatica, I wonder how quickly it would get deleted if I added an article about the encyclopedia itself being written by half-baked, spoiled rich kids who make their english teachers cry themselves to sleep at night.

I've never been to the JREF forum but...even they're on the blind-hate bandwagon?  Ugh...James Randi would be ashamed of them all.

[Tom S. Fox]

at the risk freaking anyone out (the reason for the NSFW thing too):  http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Libertarianism . This seems to give a rather...in your face kind of overview of what people seem to think as being what we stand for...

Don't mind that. Encyclopedia Dramatica is just a big, fat troll site.

[thelastgrungekid]

when i was in american government class, we dident go over libertarianism at all, so i dont have any say in this, you know have a neutral blogger =l

[MrBogosity]

As for encyclopedia dramatica, I wonder how quickly it would get deleted if I added an article about the encyclopedia itself being written by half-baked, spoiled rich kids who make their english teachers cry themselves to sleep at night.

Actually, they'd probably love it! It is a troll/parody site, after all. If to you write it, add in some bit about, "In fact, the only thing sadder than people who write articles for ED is the poor, sad losers who actually read them!"

That'd be funny...

[BZ987654]

The ED thing would be funny. Although them making fun of Fakesagan and TJ threatening to sue them did make me laugh.

[MrBogosity]

Actually, it looks like they've already done it:

Like all websites with user-generated content, ED quickly degenerated into a forum for unfunny revenge attempts by butthurt individuals of every description -- bigots, banned website users, trolling victims, failed trolls, and virgins rejected by hot girls. 99.9% of all ED articles are tl;dr ravings about things the person dislikes, or unknown and uninteresting LiveJournal or deviantART users who made someone mad by existing. The other .1% are archives of dead YouTube embeds.

http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Encyclopedia_dramatica

[Lord T Hawkeye]

Though the rest of the article is a bunch of self congratulatory nonsense.  Not to mention the same old flawed argument that "it's just a joke" is a blank cheque to be an idiot.

Though back on the subject of the haters, you call them dogmatists and they are but they're something even worse than that I'd say.  They're cowards.  As badass as they talk, they won't actually put their necks out and risk being proven wrong.  That's why they won't even look at your vids or actually address the questions challenging their claims.

On a few forums as a bit of an ongoing joke, I have presented questions challenging common beliefs and said "If anyone can give a straight shot answer to this question, I will change my font color to pink and talk like a bimbo."

Nope, they never do it.  They don't even try.  I mean, I'd have thought people would leap at the chance to see the big bad libertarian make a fool of himself but I guess even that wasn't enough motivation to do some homework.  Well, can't say I don't try.

[FSBlueApocalypse]

Anyone watch thunderf00t's new video today? Starts off well enough, but about half way through when he gets to Howtheworldworks(who I think is a douchebag myself), it goes way down hill. I found it funny he picked easily the worst videos to show yet left out anything Shane addressed to him on the subject.