Author Topic: Dog Fighting  (Read 3490 times)

Virgil0211

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Dog Fighting
« on: July 16, 2009, 03:45:50 AM »
Any thoughts here? Should it be legal or illegal?

FSBlueApocalypse

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Re: Dog Fighting
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2009, 10:44:35 AM »
I think it should be illegal. No one has the right to raise another living thing solely for the purpose of competing in a blood sport. Growing up, I witnessed several different forms of animal fighting, and Dog Fighting was the only one I ever walked out in disgust.

BZ987654

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Re: Dog Fighting
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2009, 11:57:33 AM »
I think it should be illegal. No one has the right to raise another living thing solely for the purpose of competing in a blood sport. Growing up, I witnessed several different forms of animal fighting, and Dog Fighting was the only one I ever walked out in disgust.

What about people who raise rodents for the sole purpose of feeding them to snakes alive? I think it should be illegal btw.

Virgil0211

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Re: Dog Fighting
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2009, 03:45:57 PM »
From what I've read (I could be wrong), while a rather brutal sport for the dog, making it illegal has caused more problems than it solved. For one thing, the number of dog fights hasn't decreased. They've simply been driven underground. Then, by making it illegal, you pushed out the "dog men" who were interested in the breeds because they were worried about facing prosecution. Instead, the ones who raise the dogs are more violent thugs who raise the dogs by hiring people to beat the dogs and so forth. This causes the dog to become very aggressive not just to other dogs, but to people. Thus, when it gets out, it has the potential to attack someone. Back in the old days, a trainer had to stay in the ring with the dog during the fight. As such, the dog couldn't be aggressive to his handler.

As a result of this brutal treatment, certain breeds such as the pit bull have obtained a certain stigma that they really don't deserve. I mean, the apartment complex where I live right now wouldn't let me keep my dog if I told them that he was a pit bull mix. Never mind that pit bulls are incredibly people-friendly and make great family pets if properly socialized.

Travis Retriever

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Re: Dog Fighting
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2009, 04:48:58 PM »
From what I've read (I could be wrong), while a rather brutal sport for the dog, making it illegal has caused more problems than it solved. For one thing, the number of dog fights hasn't decreased. They've simply been driven underground. Then, by making it illegal, you pushed out the "dog men" who were interested in the breeds because they were worried about facing prosecution. Instead, the ones who raise the dogs are more violent thugs who raise the dogs by hiring people to beat the dogs and so forth. This causes the dog to become very aggressive not just to other dogs, but to people. Thus, when it gets out, it has the potential to attack someone. Back in the old days, a trainer had to stay in the ring with the dog during the fight. As such, the dog couldn't be aggressive to his handler.
Hence why I tend to be for legalization whenever unless a the bevahior in question is an initiation of force or fraud on a person.

As a result of this brutal treatment, certain breeds such as the pit bull have obtained a certain stigma that they really don't deserve. I mean, the apartment complex where I live right now wouldn't let me keep my dog if I told them that he was a pit bull mix. Never mind that pit bulls are incredibly people-friendly and make great family pets if properly socialized.
Ugh, tell me about it, man.  We have a Pit Bull mix too.  Sweet as can be, yet we still get flak from neighbors because of his breed's stigma.
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MrBogosity

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Re: Dog Fighting
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2009, 06:05:18 PM »
Virgil's hit on the very point to make: People often ask these questions under the philosophy that if it's distasteful or disgusting, it should be illegal. This is based on the assumption that making it illegal will make it happen less often, and that just isn't the case.

Travis Retriever

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Re: Dog Fighting
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2009, 08:00:24 PM »
@Shane: I give you another -1 on your bogometer.
Why? Because that post was at the very heart of this issue.
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
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FSBlueApocalypse

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Re: Dog Fighting
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2009, 08:44:37 PM »
What about people who raise rodents for the sole purpose of feeding them to snakes alive? I think it should be illegal btw.

Apples and Oranges. The rodent is going to be dead within seconds while the dog may "Survive" a fight but will be maimed for life.

I understand the argument that making it illegal doesn't do any good, but I still feel some form of punishment is necessary. The obvious parallel is cock fighting, but more my experiences the way the animals are treated is night and day. The roosters are treated well and removed at the first sign one has obviously won. Dog Fighting on the other hand is another beast entirely.

Virgil0211

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Re: Dog Fighting
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2009, 01:58:03 AM »
Apples and Oranges. The rodent is going to be dead within seconds while the dog may "Survive" a fight but will be maimed for life.

"Will" be maimed for life? Are you absolutely certain? No offense, but this sounds more like an emotional response.

I understand the argument that making it illegal doesn't do any good, but I still feel some form of punishment is necessary. The obvious parallel is cock fighting, but more my experiences the way the animals are treated is night and day. The roosters are treated well and removed at the first sign one has obviously won. Dog Fighting on the other hand is another beast entirely.

From my understanding, dog fights were the same way until it was illegal. The trainers had to stay in the ring with the dog at all times, issuing commands and such, much like a pokemon battle (pardon the geek parallel, but I noticed a comparison). The owner had the option of forfeiting the match if he felt his dog would lose. The rules also said that if a dog backed off, his opponent was to be held in place until the retreating dog finished walking back to his opponent. If it couldn't, it lost the match and the fight would be over. There was something of a culture about dogfighting and other blood sports.

Once it was illegal, however, the original trainers who bred and raised dogfighters got out of the business due to the risks of being prosecuted. They were replaced by "thugs" (more or less) whose primary interest was making money, and had no idea how to raise a fighting dog. This led them to experiment with rather brutal methods such as hiring strangers to beat their dogs, a practice unheard of in the earlier years of dogfighting. As a result, the fighting dogs became aggressive not only to other dogs (as was expected/common not only in dogs bred for fighting, but in more mainstream breeds as well. Ever see a dachshund bark at another dog? That's dog-aggressiveness.), but to strange people. This meant that when the dog retired or escaped, it had a propensity towards attacking those people and animals it was unfamiliar with.

By far, the most popular breed in dogfighting was the pit bull. However, recent news stories by uninformed reporters (who would list just about any dog attacks, even if they were often by pit bull mixes or dogs who just looked like pits as pit bull attacks) have led to communities urging restrictions or outright banning of this "dangerous breed" (even though, when not abused from its youth, the pit bull can be one of the most people-friendly breeds out there). Even I might meet the criteria the PETA has released for signs of dog fighting just because I have a pit bull mix and one of these (http://www.pitbulllovers.com/training-articles/pitbull-training-springpoles.html) in my back yard. As a result, legitimate dog owners have been punished because of the mistakes of a few misguided dog fighters. Now, they've moved on and started training Rottweilers instead of Pit Bulls for their fighting. As a result, some communities are now trying to introduce BSL (Breed-specific Legislation) banning or restricting Rottweilers.

I should not have to suffer because the breed of dog I choose to own has been abused by criminal thugs. I am a responsible dog owner, and Goku's temperament is good proof of that (Yes, I'm a geek, and I named my dog Goku.). A woman in my neighborhood is one of the most responsible dog owners I know. She owns two Rottweilers and has trained them better than I could ever hope to train my own. She should not be punished for owning a breed that dogfighters chose to use in order to avoid suspicion.

Don't get me wrong. Breeding a dog and raising it for the sole purpose of fighting another is a cruel sentence to place on it. If I were god, I would wipe the practice from the face of this planet. However, I would be fooling myself if I were to accept that simply banning the practice would lead to its demise, and that there were a way to stop it without sacrificing other rights, such as our right to own whatever pet we wish so long as we were responsible enough to keep it from harming others.