Author Topic: net neutrality  (Read 1900 times)

Dukect45

  • Podcast Co-Hosts
  • *
  • Posts: 134
  • Bogometer: -7
  • Trying to be a better person
    • View Profile
    • Dukect Productions
    • Email
net neutrality
« on: February 06, 2014, 10:45:09 AM »
Well alot of people are up in arms about the net neutrality ruling http://www.forbes.com/sites/waynecrews/2014/01/14/court-rules-against-net-neutrality-in-verizon-v-fcc/

Saying its horrible its going to set back internet rights and so on. So my question is net neutrality going away a good thing or is it one of the rare things government got right?

MrBogosity

  • Master of the Bogoverse
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6108
  • Bogometer: -42
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: net neutrality
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2014, 12:40:49 PM »
It's yet again trying to correct a problem government solved. All they have to do to make it not an issue is take away monopoly/duopoly power from telcos and other ISPs and let them compete in a free market. That way, if an ISP does ANYTHING you don't like--clamping speeds on certain services, or even things they're doing now that customers hate like data caps--you can just go to a competitor.

But like in my case, the only two options are Charter (a cable TV service) and AT&T (who has their own paid multichannel service), and they both have an incentive to make it harder to watch Netflix and Hulu. I'm convinced that's the REAL reason for these data caps.

Travis Retriever

  • Sarcasitron collider
  • *****
  • Posts: 6002
  • Bogometer: -1
    • View Profile
    • My DeviantART
    • Email
Re: net neutrality
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2014, 12:44:58 PM »
It's yet again trying to correct a problem government solved. All they have to do to make it not an issue is take away monopoly/duopoly power from telcos and other ISPs and let them compete in a free market. That way, if an ISP does ANYTHING you don't like--clamping speeds on certain services, or even things they're doing now that customers hate like data caps--you can just go to a competitor.

But like in my case, the only two options are Charter (a cable TV service) and AT&T (who has their own paid multichannel service), and they both have an incentive to make it harder to watch Netflix and Hulu. I'm convinced that's the REAL reason for these data caps.
Reminds me of a post/picture by Militant-Mike1 on OKCupid that said, "The internet is already neutral.  Net Neutral = Control, control, control."
Which sounds closer to reality than most.  But yeah, figures it'd be yet *another* case of government meddling where it has no business, causing problems, and then using its propaganda machine and the political interest paradox to convince people that the free market that wasn't allowed to act was responsible for it.  As Harry Browne talked about in deep detail in "Why Government Doesn't Work."
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

dallen68

  • Bogon filter
  • ***
  • Posts: 734
  • Bogometer: -35
    • MSN Messenger - davidallen124@gmail.com
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - djajr
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: net neutrality
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2014, 01:49:09 PM »
But like in my case, the only two options are Charter (a cable TV service) and AT&T (who has their own paid multichannel service), and they both have an incentive to make it harder to watch Netflix and Hulu. I'm convinced that's the REAL reason for these data caps.

It is. The "reasonable use policy" for our local ISP (windstream) even says that after you use up your allotment, your speed is reduced to "the sustained use speed", which is like half of normal speed, and then they say that they further restrict speeds on sites known to use "unreasonable" amounts of data. Once you hit twice your allotment they knock your access to essential services only, which is like 14k.

And of course, your allotment depends on which package you buy, but for residential customers there's only like a 200 meg difference between the basic package and the platinum package-so basically, about one more show on netflix.

MrBogosity

  • Master of the Bogoverse
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6108
  • Bogometer: -42
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: net neutrality
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2014, 02:59:04 PM »
It is. The "reasonable use policy" for our local ISP (windstream) even says that after you use up your allotment, your speed is reduced to "the sustained use speed", which is like half of normal speed, and then they say that they further restrict speeds on sites known to use "unreasonable" amounts of data. Once you hit twice your allotment they knock your access to essential services only, which is like 14k.

And of course, your allotment depends on which package you buy, but for residential customers there's only like a 200 meg difference between the basic package and the platinum package-so basically, about one more show on netflix.

And the speeds themselves are pretty bogus. They'll tell you things like it's 50Mbps or something, and you'll go to SpeedTest.net or somewhere and verify it, but that's only because that's what they allow in burst mode. When it's something sustained--like watching a movie on Netflix--they clamp it down. Of course, they don't TELL you that...

Travis Retriever

  • Sarcasitron collider
  • *****
  • Posts: 6002
  • Bogometer: -1
    • View Profile
    • My DeviantART
    • Email
Re: net neutrality
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2014, 03:25:15 PM »
And the speeds themselves are pretty bogus. They'll tell you things like it's 50Mbps or something, and you'll go to SpeedTest.net or somewhere and verify it, but that's only because that's what they allow in burst mode. When it's something sustained--like watching a movie on Netflix--they clamp it down. Of course, they don't TELL you that...
Sounds about right.  Verizon (My ISP) tells my family that our DSL/Broadband connection gives us download speeds of 180 KB/s.  But the fastest *sustained* speeds I had at the time were less than half that.  And even now, it's only about 115 KB/s if no one else is on a computer at the time; with upload speeds being between 1/4 to 1/2 of that. :(  We pay $70/month for that, btw (though I can't remember if that includes phone or not); and that's not even going into their NSA crap along with Microsoft's (one reason I want to switch to Linux/Ubuntu when I get a new computer--preferably by learning to building my own).  Thanks local government-granted monopolies. T_T
The only "good" thing I can say is we don't have a 'hard' data cap.

EDIT:  According to the site for testing connection speed that Shane linked, here are my results:

Note that I'm only in the 7th percentile in the USA...AND I'VE GOT FUCKING BROADBAND!

A friend of mine blathers on about how, "oh, it's because the place you live is not very crowded, it's better in cities and in more populated countries" but then why isn't it as bad (last time I checked) in Canada?  Hell, why was it only that bad for telephone service back when Bell (or AT&T?) had a government granted monopoly and got immediately better after it was dissolved, even in places more sparsely populated than Southern Maryland?  It's true, we don't have access to, say, Verzion FIOS because we don't live in a really populated area, but again, to ignore the elephant in the room of government, especially when the same story played out even worse with AT&T's gov't granted monopoly with even less densely populated areas is extremely disingenuous.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2014, 05:16:46 PM by Travis Retriever »
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

dallen68

  • Bogon filter
  • ***
  • Posts: 734
  • Bogometer: -35
    • MSN Messenger - davidallen124@gmail.com
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - djajr
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: net neutrality
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2014, 05:21:49 PM »
The only "good" thing I can say is we don't have a 'hard' data cap.

Just to be sure you are getting what you think that you are, you might want to google *"responsible access policy" AND Verizon*, and *"fair access policy" AND Verizon* (without the *). When we got ours, I specifically asked the dude if we had data caps, and he said no.  It turns out there is, they just call it something else.

dallen68

  • Bogon filter
  • ***
  • Posts: 734
  • Bogometer: -35
    • MSN Messenger - davidallen124@gmail.com
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - djajr
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: net neutrality
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2014, 05:32:50 PM »
But getting back to the OP, I read an article in PCMAG a little while ago that strongly suggested that the reason some of the major ISP's want to scrap Net Neutrality is so they can either switch to metered service (think electric bill) or charge extra for certain types of use/content (think drink not included).

MrBogosity

  • Master of the Bogoverse
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6108
  • Bogometer: -42
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: net neutrality
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2014, 05:41:07 PM »
But getting back to the OP, I read an article in PCMAG a little while ago that strongly suggested that the reason some of the major ISP's want to scrap Net Neutrality is so they can either switch to metered service (think electric bill) or charge extra for certain types of use/content (think drink not included).

I'm increasingly of the opinion that we need encryption to hide what we're doing from our ISPs as much as anyone else.

dallen68

  • Bogon filter
  • ***
  • Posts: 734
  • Bogometer: -35
    • MSN Messenger - davidallen124@gmail.com
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - djajr
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: net neutrality
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2014, 05:59:19 PM »
I'm increasingly of the opinion that we need encryption to hide what we're doing from our ISPs as much as anyone else.

Any bets that if someone made a program that did that, they'd put a provision in the contract that says doing that is a violation of the user agreement?

Travis Retriever

  • Sarcasitron collider
  • *****
  • Posts: 6002
  • Bogometer: -1
    • View Profile
    • My DeviantART
    • Email
Re: net neutrality
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2014, 06:29:33 PM »
I'm increasingly of the opinion that we need encryption to hide what we're doing from our ISPs as much as anyone else.
Seconded.
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world—'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537