Author Topic: Taxpayer-funded science  (Read 5194 times)

11mc22

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Taxpayer-funded science
« on: June 19, 2009, 11:49:44 PM »

MrBogosity

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Re: Government necessary to fund science?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2009, 12:13:56 AM »
Notice how he credits government for the space program (when they gave themselves a monopoly on it so no free market player had the chance) but DOESN'T mention that the government ridiculed Robert Goddard's work on solid fuel rockets his entire life. They even laughed at him when he tried to warn them that Germany could use a bomb as the payload. Finally, NASA recognized him when they named Goddard Space Flight Center, but the very thing that made space flight possible the government snubbed the whole time it was being developed.

Travis Retriever

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Re: Government necessary to fund science?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2009, 12:10:39 PM »
Hey, I was the one who sent you his video.
Did you get my PM?
But I'm glad to see you provide input for this, regardless. :)
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole worldó'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

MrBogosity

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Re: Government necessary to fund science?
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2009, 01:24:40 PM »
Yes, I just don't have the strength to go through it right now. I've got someone else on the Free Market video making the same claim about the Internet. He says it all happened because of government because of CERN's role. I pointed out Cisco's role to him. It would be just as (in)valid to claim the internet could not have happened without Cisco.

Travis Retriever

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Re: Government necessary to fund science?
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2009, 02:14:54 PM »
That's alright Shane.
I can't say I blame you though.
The idea that the only way Scientists and Engineers (my major) can have work is via State coercion is simply repugnant.  I couldn't even get through the first half of Thunderf00t's video.
I made comments expressing my disapproval, and they got like over 25 down thumbs. lol
One person even accused me of being a Christian because I said the video was Statist (wtf?). I laughed, I luled and I cried a little on the inside because of that...
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 01:38:31 PM by surhotchaperchlorome »
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole worldó'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Travis Retriever

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Show Thunderf00t these
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2009, 08:44:02 PM »
Show Thunderf00t these:

("The Myth of Science as a Public Good (by Terence Kealey)" by Nielsio)

("Why science should not be funded by government: part 1" by Malthus0)

("Why science should not be funded by government: part 2" by Malthus0)

("Why science should not be funded by government: part 3" by Malthus0)

("Why science should not be funded by government: part 4" by Malthus0)

The part one of the sliced up version already a video response to the video by thunderf00t however.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 05:13:04 AM by MrBogosity, Reason: Fixed YouTube embeds »
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole worldó'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

MrBogosity

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Re: Government necessary to fund science?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2009, 09:39:38 PM »
Man, I'm tempted to move this thread to Future Episodes...

Travis Retriever

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Re: Government necessary to fund science?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2009, 09:45:52 PM »
You'd want to make this an episode of Bogosity?!

Then by all means, feel free to move it! :)
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole worldó'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Travis Retriever

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Re: Government necessary to fund science?
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2009, 10:18:10 PM »
Basically, TF's argument is one big argument from ignorance/incredulity.

Here's a little thread:
Jtownlegends:  Here's the only thing i might disagree with Thunder, you say government funded projects.  Did we need the government to do all this really?

Thunderf00t:  Yes, absolutely. How many of those 'great scientists' came from the private sector? How many nobel prizes go there?

Government funding is only the mechanism. The essential factor is a society that supports the growth of knowledge. There is a reason why ESA and NASA exist, yet Saudi has no such institute. SNS, ISIS, NCNR ESRF VLA VLT LHC ITER Hubble etc... I can see no mechanism for these achievements without such a society.


My reply to Thunderf00t:  Because the government funding crowds out the private science research, according to a study conducted by OECD.

Argument from Incredulity and Ignorance.


A reply to from vagitoe:  Without government funding, we would still be looking to the stars and wondering what is out there.
Notice how he provides ZERO evidence for his assertion...
« Last Edit: July 04, 2009, 06:42:59 PM by surhotchaperchlorome »
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole worldó'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

MrBogosity

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Re: Taxpayer-funded science
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2009, 01:26:18 PM »
Yes, because Galileo and Kepler both received LOTS of government funding to do their work...  ::)

MrBogosity

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Re: Taxpayer-funded science
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2009, 01:28:15 PM »
All right, guys, we need stuff on the other side...and I don't mean the typical stuff of people using anecdotal evidence to say how we "need" the government to do this; I mean stuff like the Kealey video, only on the other side. Where's the factual-based data? IS there any? Come on, I know we can't ALL agree on this subject...

BZ987654

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Re: Taxpayer-funded science
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2009, 01:30:01 PM »
I love thunderf00t's sceince videos. His political views/videos.....not so much.

Travis Retriever

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Re: Taxpayer-funded science
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2009, 09:26:48 AM »

Is this what you're looking for?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 01:48:14 PM by surhotchaperchlorome »
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole worldó'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Travis Retriever

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Re: Taxpayer-funded science
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2010, 07:00:24 PM »
For tax payer funded science:


Me:  "/watch?v=C_PVI6V6o-4 ('The Myth of Science as a Public Good (by Terence Kealey)' by Nielsio)
If you haven't watched it already, I suggest you do.

Has this ever actually happened?
The scenario you describe?"


Jacob Spinney:  "Absolutely. Just turn on late night TV infomercials. They sell all kinds of very simple items that are super easy to copy. Yet they provide quite a bit of value for the consumer and took quite a bit of money to create."
« Last Edit: April 01, 2010, 12:22:58 PM by surhotchaperchlorome »
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole worldó'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537

Travis Retriever

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Re: Taxpayer-funded science
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2010, 07:08:12 PM »
He also posted this on IP: 

Ladyattis' response to the above video: 

ladyattis:  "You can't own an idea. And that's the issue. Someone figures out X and someone figures it out independently, so who owns it?"

Jacob Spinney:  "I completely concede that ideas are different from tangible things in that you can copy an idea. But imagine that we lived in a world where someone has to plant a seed in the ground and wait a few years carefully nurturing that tree until it starts to produce apples . . . and then someone comes along and types in a matrix code that copies the apple tree. They're able to get the same thing without devoting any of the hard work. What then is my incentive to make the original tree?"

ladyattis: "The problem in this analogy is that the labor of the person who grew the tree is stolen by the fact another can plant or clone another like it. That doesn't follow in terms of labor theory of ownership. I labor to understand a problem, and I solve it independent of you, thus my labor is mixed with my work/solution free of your labor and yours. Any attempt to justify the cartelization of either's works is immoral and illogical."
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 07:19:19 PM by surhotchaperchlorome »
"When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole worldó'No. You move.'"
-Captain America, Amazing Spider-Man 537