Weed! Pot! Whatever!

[FelleAndersson]

So, hi guys! I'm pretty new here, but I've watched all the episodes of Bogosity and some other vids by Shane (Love the cloud one ^^)

Anywho, to the topic.

Weed.

I've never tried it, (and I won't say I never will) and I don't know anyone who has tried it, so I can't say I know first-hand about the effects of using weed (Wither it be smoking, drinking or eating). So, I want to know, is there anyone here that has actually used it? Or does any of you guys that has independent research about the effects? (Preferably from Europe or USA).

You see, from what I've seen, heard and read, it seems that cannabis isn't actually harmful. But might cause some cases of paranoia. Don't know how, but if anyone knows, please do tell. Statistics shows that Cannabis is less harmful than alcohol and tobacco.

But the reason I want to know is (This is prolly a tl;dr thing, so you don't have to read it)

//Start tl;dr//

I was at a meeting with politicians from my municipality along with many others. The topic was which age should be appropriate to purchase alcohol. It's 20 here now, from the stores that sell them and at bars/pubs it's 18. But the topic turned it to how kids get alcohol anyways and then went into how kids get drugs.

Apparently, kids from the age of 12 was spotted smoking weed at a train station just on the edge of my municipality. Personally, I think it probably isn't too good for them to smoke the shit, perhaps eat a brownie would be better. But still. They're 12 and want to be cool..

They tried to come up with a solution, and failed. They didn't listen to my suggestion, which was legalization of weed/drugs in general. And when I suggested that;

Holy shit. I was actually accused for "liberal views". And how drugs are bad for you etc etc. Of course I know some drugs are bad for me, that's why I want it legalized? People don't get it, they really should see Shanes video about the War on Drugs. The policy is pretty much the same here in Sweden.

One person on the meeting had apparently worked with people having problems with drugs, and how they acted etc, and I know, some drugs are horrible for you.

But when I tried to explain that drugs such as Cannabis actually isn't harmful in a sense what alcohol does to you, they shut me up and closed their ears and said "Bullshit weed isn't addictive, bullshit it ain't harmful bla bla yackydiyackdy." And I can almost say that I know for a fact that Cannabis isn't addictive, since I've watched a lot of videos about that subject (Though, haven't seen the studies, would like to see some) and the people there that used weed wasn't addicted to it in a sense that we are addicted to tobacco or alcohol. Agreed, some might get addicted in the same way that people are addicted to, let's sat, ice-cream. It's just sooo good you must have it, get it?

//End tl;dr//

However, I want a clear answer now, IS Cannabis REALLY harmful or not? IS it REALLY addictive or not?
Why am I here? What is my purpose? Where did I come from?

[Sinlingual]

it doesn't even matter if it's harmful or not, the point is freedom, you should be free to do whatever you will with your body.

[FelleAndersson]

it doesn't even matter if it's harmful or not, the point is freedom, you should be free to do whatever you will with your body.

Exactly my point. But then comes the argument that when you're under influence, you might be a threat to society (As a drunkard isn't.. Plus the fact that weed makes you more 'paranoid' of your environment, you'd actually be less of a threat since you'd keep away or drive slower in traffic), but for the heavier drugs, your addiction might be harder to fight and (at least here) the government pays for your treatment, and that's what they all say... "Why can't I be free?" "Cause we then pay for you to get better". Yeah..

[Sinlingual]

i live in the UK and we have the same system. just show them how it's working in the netherlands.

[MrBogosity]

Exactly my point. But then comes the argument that when you're under influence, you might be a threat to society (As a drunkard isn't.. Plus the fact that weed makes you more 'paranoid' of your environment, you'd actually be less of a threat since you'd keep away or drive slower in traffic), but for the heavier drugs, your addiction might be harder to fight and (at least here) the government pays for your treatment, and that's what they all say... "Why can't I be free?" "Cause we then pay for you to get better". Yeah..

That's the big problem with government health care and other socialist policies. We end up paying for all of that crap. They use the same argument for seat belt and helmet laws. But shouldn't each person be responsible for the consequences of his own mistakes? Socialism, fascism, corporatism, and all of the other forms of big government eliminate that very responsibility. Then people wonder why people are being irresponsible!

[FelleAndersson]

That's the big problem with government health care and other socialist policies. We end up paying for all of that crap. They use the same argument for seat belt and helmet laws. But shouldn't each person be responsible for the consequences of his own mistakes? Socialism, fascism, corporatism, and all of the other forms of big government eliminate that very responsibility. Then people wonder why people are being irresponsible!

Haha, indeed. Now, I'm not that into to crap on my government, but that's because I'm under 18 and don't pay taxes, yet. So, for us youngsters, it's a hell of an awesome life. Free dentist plan, free medical plan, free this and that. But seeing as I'm not gonna be under 18/not working a big part of my life, I can't see myself living in Sweden anymore, might even move over to the United States, but that's a big maybe. (It's far from home Plus that IF you don't succeed in the US, chances are that your life is gonna suck ), or I might get into politics and become the Prime Minister and then revolutionize the whole system and make Sweden a super power and claim back Norway and Finland mwhuahahahaha

But everyone has been brainwashed and sees not our government as a tool to rule our country by our demands, but thinks so low of us that the government is some sort of parent and need to watch over us 24/7.

A mass-surveillance law just passed a few months ago (that allows surveillance of any communication coming in and out of the country) and now another law is about to pass making it legal for CD/Film companies to demand private information from ISPs (Like IP numbers) if they suspect someone to download their material...

Which makes me really scared because it seems like we're going to become... Well... I dunno...

Russia?

[Teredona]

Probably any oppressive government would fit that description

[imorio]

Message from the netherlans here, dont envie us, were just as stupid. We are thinking of criminalizing softdrugs, as our policy is almost more stupid than the war on drugs (and it takes some effort to beat the americans at this kinds of things). We now have the policy that a store owner with a lisence may sell the drugs, but a person can only have very litle on him, and there are limets on how much you may sell and how much you may have in stock. You also may grow some yourself, in very VERY limited amounts. So the legal way isnt profitable and we now have the situation with an illegal back door and a legal front door.

[Travis Retriever]

That's the big problem with government health care and other socialist policies. We end up paying for all of that crap. They use the same argument for seat belt and helmet laws. But shouldn't each person be responsible for the consequences of his own mistakes? Socialism, fascism, corporatism, and all of the other forms of big government eliminate that very responsibility. Then people wonder why people are being irresponsible!

The latter of which, they then use as justification for even further government intrusion into our personal lives.

[MrBogosity]

The latter of which, they then use as justification for even further government intrusion into our personal lives.

Yes, I believe it was Raymond Smullyan who likened this to a man who doesn't trust his dog, and as a result keeps him perpetually chained. This, of course, makes the dog vicious. So then the man says, "See how vicious this dog is? You see now why I have to keep him chained!"

[VectorM]

Yes, I believe it was Raymond Smullyan who likened this to a man who doesn't trust his dog, and as a result keeps him perpetually chained. This, of course, makes the dog vicious. So then the man says, "See how vicious this dog is? You see now why I have to keep him chained!"

Can we call this "The Chained Dog Effect", or is there a name for that already?

[MrBogosity]

There are those in favor of a sensible policy:

[yt]f1ZFckhB3Ls[/yt]

[Travis Retriever]

Glad to know there are SOME sane candidates out there, should the state decide to make voting compulsory.

[Travis Retriever]

Can we call this "The Chained Dog Effect", or is there a name for that already?

Self fulfilling prophecy?
If not, then, "The Chained Dog Effect" sounds good to me!

[AHPMB]

We end up paying for all of that crap. They use the same argument for seat belt and helmet laws. But shouldn't each person be responsible for the consequences of his own mistakes?

The problem is, that people don't end up paying for their own mistakes.  The increased cost of an accident without a seat belt or helmet tends to get defrayed to us through higher insurance costs, hospital costs, etc.  So the seatbelt law is essentially a band-aid on a gaping wound, that is the corporatist, state supported health care apparatus.  But there's really no relevance to the greater argument about marijuana.  Studies have repeatedly shown the medical benefits of the drug.  The downsides of cannibis, the side effects if you will, are NOTHING compared to say Paxil, Imiprimine, Thorazine, or other mind altering medications, or even most prescription allergy medication.

Outlawing Cannibis is about government control of society, specifically, an excuse to persecute counter-culture groups that have persistantly used cannibis in the past.  It's about naked power.