Unnamed(?) logical fallacies

[MrBogosity]

Okay, this has GOT to be a fallacy of some kind.

You talk about economics. You talk about how prosperous the 1950s were and why, and how it was a time of genuine prosperity, not a bubble like the '20s or the '80s. You talk about the small government and monetary policies that gave us this benefit. And then you run into someone like this guy (start the video around 3:20):

[yt]eqOZ-i3ISX4&start=200[/yt]

Yeah, as if the only way you can implement those policies is to reintroduce segregration!

(We won't get into the "What freedoms has Obama taken away?" part, because that's a list that could go on a long, long time...)

Anyway, the point is that employing that same economic policy does not in any way mean approval of or wishing to reinstate racial or sexist attitudes and policies of the time. IMO, there needs to be a named fallacy for associating irrelevant aspects just because they happened to coincide, for the purpose of discrediting the argument when, of course, absolutely nothing has been done to refute it.

allmakescombined on my YouTube channel:

If only you could go back in time to stateless Ireland and compare it to the life you live now.  I wonder if you really think the quality of life is even comparable.  I think it wouldn't take two days before the tears would start pouring and you'd be begging for your running water, clean food, and science-based medicine back. lol

Yes, we REALLY need a good name for this fallacy! Turn Back the Clock Fallacy? Good Old Days Fallacy? BAD Old Days Fallacy?

[Travis Retriever]

allmakescombined on my YouTube channel:

Yes, we REALLY need a good name for this fallacy! Turn Back the Clock Fallacy? Good Old Days Fallacy? BAD Old Days Fallacy?

*shrugs* Fucked if I know.  You're the gatekeeper and arbiter of what a good name for these fallacies is, so....

Well, if I have to give my half pence, I'd say bad old days fallacy.  *shrugs* Whatever, just get it listed already.

[MrBogosity]

*shrugs* Fucked if I know.  You're the gatekeeper and arbiter of what a good name for these fallacies is, so....

Well, if I have to give my half pence, I'd say bad old days fallacy.  *shrugs* Whatever, just get it listed already.

Good Old Days would be too confusing, I think, since it would seem to target the fallacious reasoning of people who tend to say "Back in my day..." and describe things completely differently than the way they were.

Bad Old Days doesn't seem to me to be instantly descriptive.

I'll go with Turn Back the Clock, unless anyone has anything better.

[MrBogosity]

Since it covers several posts over too many pages, I'll describe the Turn Back the Clock Fallacy here:

This is a form of Guilt By Association, as well as Poisoning the Well, where an argument in favor of something that was done in the past is wrongly denigrated by a false comparison to what else was going on at the time.

This bit from Bill Maher is a prime example:

[yt]eqOZ-i3ISX4&start=200[/yt]

Since there is absolutely nothing about the economic policy that led to the prosperity of the 1950s that has anything to do with segregation or other forms of racism, this is a Turn Back the Clock Fallacy. Implementing this economic policy would NOT require reinstituting segregation. The fallacy is nothing more than an attempt to poison the well and associate it with irrelevant factors that happened to correspond.

A similar example is when someone points out that the economic conditions of the poor and the working class increased during the so-called "Gilded Age" at a much higher rate than at any other point in history, before or since. Then, the response given from the other side is, "So you want to go back to the working conditions that existed then?" The point is how much the economy grew under such a policy, and how much better off the poor became. Instituting the policy does NOT mean rolling back everything that's happened since then, so this is a Turn Back the Clock Fallacy.

[MrBogosity]

What about, the Last Word Gambit?

You know, when you're dealing with someone who's so completely deluded and dishonest it's impossible to have a discussion with him, and you say so. He then responds with a screed against your character, to which you respond to defend yourself.

He then bleats, "I thought you were leaving!" and makes a big deal about the fact that you're sticking around after you said the discussion was over.

Just because there's no way the discussion can be fruitful DOES NOT give the woo carte blanche to say whatever he wants without fear of it being refuted. Nor does it mean the subject of the attack has no legitimacy in defending himself against it. The woo is NOT entitled to the last word.

[Travis Retriever]

Just because there's no way the discussion can be fruitful DOES NOT give the woo carte blanche to say whatever he wants without fear of it being refuted. Nor does it mean the subject of the attack has no legitimacy in defending himself against it. The woo is NOT entitled to the last word.

So how do you deal with the opposite problem of a woo that just won't stop trying to get the last word in (besides just blocking them, thereby giving their martyr complex a boner)? Cases in point for me:  http://travis-retriever.deviantart.com/journal/Etymology-of-Libertarian-428567763 and http://travis-retriever.deviantart.com/journal/Lost-23-pounds-side-effects-and-future-goals-437451121 As I tend to have issues with that instead....stupid anxiety issues.

[MrBogosity]

So how do you deal with the opposite problem of a woo that just won't stop trying to get the last word in (besides just blocking them, thereby giving their martyr complex a boner)? Cases in point for me:  http://travis-retriever.deviantart.com/journal/Etymology-of-Libertarian-428567763 and http://travis-retriever.deviantart.com/journal/Lost-23-pounds-side-effects-and-future-goals-437451121 As I tend to have issues with that instead....stupid anxiety issues.

Sometimes you just have to let them go. If they say anything egregious you need to respond to, respond to it, otherwise, the way I see it you only get to be led in a circle twice before continuing becomes your fault.

[Travis Retriever]

Sometimes you just have to let them go. If they say anything egregious you need to respond to, respond to it, otherwise, the way I see it you only get to be led in a circle twice before continuing becomes your fault.

Thanks Shane.

[tnu]

OK I have one

"The Crying Game" or "The Cry Baby Fallacy"


Basically somebody trying to discredit your argument by accusing you of whining or crying. Sometmes it'sa direct accusation "stop whining!" "stop crying!" or "you're a crybaby" or "all you've done is complain" other times it takes the form of amocking "waaaahhhhhh" or them talking like or treating you like a baby. If this isn't a Fallacy already itnees to beo ne.

[Travis Retriever]

Nostalgic/Nostalgia fallacy.  AKA The Good 'Ol Days Fallacy.

When someone (esp a traditionalist) looks at a trend going on today and acts like people are more stupid/entitled/evil/whatever than they were before.
Case in point:  https://www.bogosity.tv/forum/index.php?topic=315.msg25683#msg25683
And of course, any old timer going, "Well in MY day, we...[respected our elders, worked hard,...yada yada yada]."
Another example that Hawkeye is no doubt familiar with would be the nostalgic fanboys wankers of WoW who swoon for the days of vanilla WoW.
I'm sorry, but I've seen this one so many times, it simply DEMANDS a spot in these thread, even if it never sees the light of day of the front page's list.

[MrBogosity]

Nostalgic/Nostalgia fallacy.  AKA The Good 'Ol Days Fallacy.

When someone (esp a traditionalist) looks at a trend going on today and acts like people are more stupid/entitled/evil/whatever than they were before.
Case in point:  https://www.bogosity.tv/forum/index.php?topic=315.msg25683#msg25683
And of course, any old timer going, "Well in MY day, we...[respected our elders, worked hard,...yada yada yada]."
Another example that Hawkeye is no doubt familiar with would be the nostalgic fanboys wankers of WoW who swoon for the days of vanilla WoW.
I'm sorry, but I've seen this one so many times, it simply DEMANDS a spot in these thread, even if it never sees the light of day of the front page's list.

To me, the whole concept of referring to ANY time with a first-person 3D MMORPG as "the good old days" is just taking leave of reality.

Hey, in MY day, Wolfenstein was 2D, no mouse, and black-and green, and WE LIKED IT JUST FINE THAT WAY!!!

(No really, we did! I wonder if I can find a copy online? I miss those...)

[AnCap Dave]

To me, the whole concept of referring to ANY time with a first-person 3D MMORPG as "the good old days" is just taking leave of reality.

Hey, in MY day, Wolfenstein was 2D, no mouse, and black-and green, and WE LIKED IT JUST FINE THAT WAY!!!

(No really, we did! I wonder if I can find a copy online? I miss those...)

Mah homie!

[dallen68]

To me, the whole concept of referring to ANY time with a first-person 3D MMORPG as "the good old days" is just taking leave of reality.

Hey, in MY day, Wolfenstein was 2D, no mouse, and black-and green, and WE LIKED IT JUST FINE THAT WAY!!!

(No really, we did! I wonder if I can find a copy online? I miss those...)

Remember text adventures?

[BogosityForumUser]

To me, the whole concept of referring to ANY time with a first-person 3D MMORPG as "the good old days" is just taking leave of reality.

Hey, in MY day, Wolfenstein was 2D, no mouse, and black-and green, and WE LIKED IT JUST FINE THAT WAY!!!

(No really, we did! I wonder if I can find a copy online? I miss those...)

Just download a copy of dosbox (either from dosbox.com or your package manager) and a copy from your most trusted abandonware site.  Sadly, Muse went out of business and there is mixed information as to what happened at the asset auction.  Therefore, who owns the rights is somewhat questionable, which makes the legality of acquiring a copy even more dubious.  Yet another reason to support shorter copyright terms in our modern technological age.

As for text adventures, there are many of them online now (for FREE!) and many more still get made.  Sadly, more than a few have been lost and will remain so someone gets their dusty 5" out.

[MrBogosity]

Remember text adventures?

Yep!

"Apple eaten...core dumped." (I wonder how many people get that joke?)

All the times I was in the dark, afraid I'd be eaten by a grue...

And all that time I spent trying to get THAT DAMN BABEL FISH!!!