1 00:00:25,080 --> 00:00:29,580 Bogosity.TV presents 2 00:00:29,590 --> 00:00:33,660 Expelled: Correcting the Misinformation 3 00:00:33,670 --> 00:00:38,270 This is a special subtitle track. 4 00:00:38,370 --> 00:00:47,870 The movie you are watching contains numerous factual errors and is filled with misleading information. 5 00:00:47,905 --> 00:00:55,130 The purpose of this subtitle file is to correct the errors and set the record straight. 6 00:00:55,165 --> 00:01:00,700 It was created by Shane D. Killian and is copyright 2008-2010, some rights reserved. 7 00:01:00,735 --> 00:01:06,270 It is released under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 license. 8 00:01:06,305 --> 00:01:11,390 You may--and are encouraged to--distribute this file far and wide. 9 00:01:11,490 --> 00:01:16,490 The main source for the information in this file is ExpelledExposed.com 10 00:01:16,525 --> 00:01:21,700 Other sources include interviews and podcasts with the featured scientists 11 00:01:21,735 --> 00:01:30,360 including Michael Shermer, Richard Dawkins, PZ Myers, and Eugenie Scott 12 00:01:30,460 --> 00:01:36,200 and various scientific references. 13 00:01:36,300 --> 00:02:16,620 Visit www.Bogosity.TV 14 00:02:16,621 --> 00:02:22,274 (subtitle version 1.3) 15 00:03:54,340 --> 00:04:01,710 Herrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre's Benny! 16 00:04:07,625 --> 00:04:09,502 "Gangstas"? 17 00:04:09,537 --> 00:04:13,460 This was recorded at Pepperdine University, but it's not a university audience. 18 00:04:13,460 --> 00:04:17,659 According to Lee Kats, natural science chair at the university: 19 00:04:17,659 --> 00:04:21,412 "The production company paid for the use of the facility 20 00:04:21,412 --> 00:04:25,403 "just as all other companies do that film on our campus... 21 00:04:25,403 --> 00:04:29,378 "The company was nervous that they would not have enough people in the audience 22 00:04:29,378 --> 00:04:32,698 "so they brought in extras. 23 00:04:32,698 --> 00:04:36,653 "Members of the audience had to sign in 24 00:04:36,653 --> 00:04:40,637 "and a staff member reports that no more than two to three Pepperdine students were in attendance. 25 00:04:40,637 --> 00:04:45,084 "Mr. Stein's lecture on that topic was not an event sponsored by the university." 26 00:04:45,085 --> 00:04:48,507 He also said that the Christian students at the university accept evolution. 27 00:04:54,330 --> 00:05:00,750 Science helped a bit, too, you know. 28 00:05:00,785 --> 00:05:06,400 In fact, can you truly have science without freedom, and vice-versa? 29 00:05:12,483 --> 00:05:14,984 This is untrue. 30 00:05:15,019 --> 00:05:19,742 As these subtitles will show, it's just an excuse 31 00:05:19,777 --> 00:05:25,278 to explain why his side hasn't done any actual science at all. 32 00:05:25,278 --> 00:05:31,138 These subtitles will also show that his conclusion is based on false and misleading information. 33 00:05:36,776 --> 00:05:40,642 Note the weasel words, "party line." 34 00:05:40,642 --> 00:05:44,461 Many others show up throughout the film. Watch out for them. 35 00:05:43,470 --> 00:05:47,060 Sternberg was never an employee of the Smithsonian Institution. 36 00:05:47,095 --> 00:05:55,060 He was employed by the National Institutes of Health. 37 00:06:01,717 --> 00:06:04,765 Did you catch that? More weasel words. 38 00:06:12,540 --> 00:06:17,380 He published this article without going through the proper review process. 39 00:06:17,415 --> 00:06:21,580 The "firestorm" occurred because the paper was shoddy science. 40 00:06:21,615 --> 00:06:24,790 It had previously been reviewed and rejected. 41 00:06:24,825 --> 00:06:28,300 The paper had nothing to do with how life began. 42 00:06:28,335 --> 00:06:31,680 It was on the Cambrian Explosion. 43 00:06:31,715 --> 00:06:34,760 There was no such investigation. 44 00:06:34,795 --> 00:06:40,690 He had already turned in his resignation six months before publishing the paper. 45 00:06:40,725 --> 00:06:45,750 The issue in question was to be his second-to-last as voluntary editor. 46 00:06:45,785 --> 00:06:53,150 The Smithsonian extended his unpaid position in 2006, but he has never shown up. 47 00:07:05,668 --> 00:07:08,780 Clips like this are what Richard Dawkins referred to as "Lord Privy Seals" (quoted later). 48 00:07:08,815 --> 00:07:12,530 The term comes from a 1960s British comedy lampooning this shoddy method of filmmaking. 49 00:07:12,530 --> 00:07:16,780 Stephen Meyer is an officer of the Discovery Institute, an Intelligent Design think-tank. 50 00:07:16,815 --> 00:07:25,260 He declined to take the stand in defense of Intelligent Design at the 2005 Kitzmiller v. Dover School Board trial. 51 00:07:25,295 --> 00:07:32,530 The rejection of this paper had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with being bad science. 52 00:07:32,565 --> 00:07:41,330 There is not a single piece of evidence to show that he was called a "terrorist." 53 00:07:55,030 --> 00:08:07,030 Michael Shermer is the editor of Skeptic Magazine. 54 00:08:07,031 --> 00:08:17,031 www.skeptic.com 55 00:08:26,830 --> 00:08:31,820 In order to be taken seriously, Intelligent Design or any new idea must conform to scientific principles. 56 00:08:31,855 --> 00:08:35,120 This includes, but is not limited to: 57 00:08:35,155 --> 00:08:39,600 Making testable predictions 58 00:08:39,635 --> 00:08:44,620 Having a way of being theoretically falsified 59 00:08:44,655 --> 00:08:49,620 Conforming to the Correspondence Principle (explained later) 60 00:08:49,655 --> 00:08:54,475 So far, no Intelligent Design advocate has done any of these. 61 00:09:09,727 --> 00:09:15,131 Indeed, Shermer is right, as was just explained. 62 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:49,730 George Mason University is lauded by libertarians for its commitment to freedom. 63 00:09:56,730 --> 00:10:00,060 Crocker did much more than simply "mention" Intelligent Design. 64 00:10:00,095 --> 00:10:04,610 She took up valuable class time teaching creationist material that had been shown to be false. 65 00:10:04,645 --> 00:10:08,480 Her career in no way came to an end. She continued teaching at GMU and NVCC... 66 00:10:08,515 --> 00:10:15,230 and then took a postdoctoral position at Uniformed Services University studying T-cell signal interaction. 67 00:10:15,265 --> 00:10:19,870 Despite numerous student complaints, she finished out her contract. 68 00:10:19,905 --> 00:10:23,560 Her contract was for a non-tenure track position. 69 00:10:23,570 --> 00:10:29,270 Such professors may not be called back the next semester for a number of reasons, 70 00:10:29,305 --> 00:10:34,980 including available faculty, enrollment, and popularity of the class or whether it is even offered. 71 00:10:51,980 --> 00:11:03,280 Again, she has held several scientific investigative and teaching positions since this incident. 72 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:36,400 This was an essay on an Intelligent Design blog. 73 00:11:39,380 --> 00:11:42,900 That's the blogsphere for you. It ain't just you, pal. 74 00:11:42,935 --> 00:11:49,760 In fact, the creationists and ID proponents have a reputation for being far nastier. 75 00:11:49,795 --> 00:11:59,350 Numerous creationists have done just that to the University of Minnesota about PZ Myers, who appears later. 76 00:11:59,385 --> 00:12:04,400 PZ has even received death threats. 77 00:12:04,435 --> 00:12:10,000 Um, "expelled" from where? They never even claim he lost his job. 78 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:25,303 Yes, Ben, he was. He remains Professor of Electrical and Computer Engineering at Baylor... 79 00:12:25,304 --> 00:12:30,010 and his work conditions have not changed in any way. 80 00:12:30,045 --> 00:12:34,910 The web site in question was an ID web site and had nothing to do with his university research. 81 00:12:34,945 --> 00:12:41,970 It was not shut down, but moved off the University servers to a third-party hosting provider. 82 00:12:42,005 --> 00:12:48,930 He dishonestly called it a "laboratory" when it was nothing of the kind. 83 00:12:48,965 --> 00:12:56,950 He also implied a connection between the subject and Baylor which did not exist. 84 00:12:56,985 --> 00:13:06,750 Again, the web site was never shut down. 85 00:13:19,970 --> 00:13:25,370 Marks, like Egnor, was not "expelled" from anywhere. 86 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,230 This "stellar research record" only occurred at the start of his career at ISU. 87 00:13:51,265 --> 00:13:55,750 He is not credited with the discovery of any extra-solar planets. 88 00:13:55,785 --> 00:14:01,750 Denial of tenure happens all the time, and seldom puts careers "in jeopardy." 89 00:14:01,785 --> 00:14:05,110 ISU based his tenure on: 90 00:14:05,145 --> 00:14:09,180 "refereed publications, his level of success in attracting research funding and grants, 91 00:14:09,215 --> 00:14:11,659 "the amount of telescope observing time he had been granted, 92 00:14:11,660 --> 00:14:14,520 "the number of graduate students he had supervised, 93 00:14:14,530 --> 00:14:19,140 "and most importantly, the overall evidence of future career promise in the field of astronomy." 94 00:14:19,175 --> 00:14:25,120 During his time at ISU, he gained no major grants and published no significant research. 95 00:14:25,155 --> 00:14:30,340 He only had one graduate student finish a dissertation. 96 00:14:30,375 --> 00:14:37,970 Gonzalez's peers had obtained 50 times the grant money he did by the time they were granted tenure. 97 00:14:43,971 --> 00:14:49,010 We mentioned the Correspondence Principle earlier. 98 00:14:49,010 --> 00:14:52,700 The Correspondence Principle is very important in science. 99 00:14:52,735 --> 00:14:59,760 It says, to put it simply, a new theory must correspond to the current knowledge. 100 00:14:59,795 --> 00:15:06,027 So, for example, when Einstein posited Special Relativity to replace Newtonian physics, 101 00:15:06,062 --> 00:15:12,570 he had to explain why Newton had worked so well up to that point. 102 00:15:12,570 --> 00:15:17,923 His equations reduce to the equivalent of Newton's 103 00:15:17,958 --> 00:15:22,676 for velocities that are infinitesimal compared to the speed of light. 104 00:15:22,711 --> 00:15:28,606 Every new theory must conform to this principle. 105 00:15:28,641 --> 00:15:36,248 So creationism or ID must have some way of explaining why evolution has worked so well as far as it has. 106 00:15:36,283 --> 00:15:42,808 They haven't done that yet. 107 00:15:51,170 --> 00:15:55,890 The evolutionary scientists interviewed for this movie were misled as to its topic. 108 00:15:55,925 --> 00:16:03,700 They were told the movie was "Crossroads: The Intersection of Science and Religion." 109 00:16:03,735 --> 00:16:09,580 As a result, these interviews are shown completely out of context. 110 00:16:09,615 --> 00:16:16,990 When confronted with this, the producers claimed that "Crossroads" was a working title... 111 00:16:17,025 --> 00:16:22,620 and that the title changed when they changed what the movie was about. 112 00:16:22,655 --> 00:16:28,150 The problem is, according to the Network Solutions WHOIS database... 113 00:16:28,185 --> 00:16:34,400 they had registered the movie's domain name, ExpelledTheMovie.com, on 1 March 2007... 114 00:16:34,435 --> 00:16:38,410 months in advance of the interviews. 115 00:16:38,445 --> 00:16:44,180 In fact, PZ Myers posted the letter he received from producer Mark Mathis, 116 00:16:44,215 --> 00:16:50,480 stating that the film was "Crossroads: The Intersection of Science and Religion." 117 00:16:50,515 --> 00:17:00,050 It was dated April 2007, one month after the domain name was registered. 118 00:17:00,085 --> 00:17:02,131 PZ: "Why were they so dishonest about it? 119 00:17:02,132 --> 00:17:07,770 "If Mathis had said outright that he wants to interview an atheist and outspoken critic of Intelligent Design... 120 00:17:07,805 --> 00:17:13,390 "for a film he was making about how ID is unfairly excluded from academe, I would have said, 'bring it on!' 121 00:17:13,425 --> 00:17:20,520 "We would have had a good, pugnacious argument on tape that directly addresses the claims of his movie, 122 00:17:20,555 --> 00:17:25,900 "and it would have been a better--at least, more honest and more relevant--sequence." 123 00:17:25,910 --> 00:17:31,590 "I mean, seriously, not telling one of the sides in a debate about what the subject might be... 124 00:17:31,625 --> 00:17:35,290 "and then leading him around randomly to various topics, 125 00:17:35,291 --> 00:17:41,310 "with the intent of later editing it down to the parts that just make the points you want, 126 00:17:41,345 --> 00:17:49,790 "is the video version of quote-mining and is fundamentally dishonest." --PZ Myers, Pharyngula blog, 21 March 2008 127 00:17:49,825 --> 00:17:54,360 All of the evolutionary scientists interviewed are atheists. 128 00:17:54,395 --> 00:18:00,290 Clearly, the implication is that all evolutionary scientists are atheists. 129 00:18:00,325 --> 00:18:03,284 That is far from true. 130 00:18:03,319 --> 00:18:08,140 In fact, Kenneth Miller is a prominent evolutionary scientist 131 00:18:08,175 --> 00:18:13,119 who has written school textbooks and was the star witness for the prosecution in the Dover trial. 132 00:18:13,154 --> 00:18:16,617 He's a devout, practicing Christian 133 00:18:16,652 --> 00:18:22,243 as are others, including Francis Collins of the NiH, paleontologist Robert T. Bakker, 134 00:18:22,278 --> 00:18:26,488 and Francisco Alaya of the National Academy of Sciences. 135 00:18:26,523 --> 00:18:30,809 When Mark Mathis was asked by Scientific American editors why none of the Christian evolutionists were included, 136 00:18:30,844 --> 00:18:35,547 Mathis replied that it "would have confused the film unnecessarily." 137 00:18:48,118 --> 00:18:54,055 Apparently, Ben Stein doesn't know how to use Google Maps. 138 00:19:06,456 --> 00:19:10,028 It seems that Stein is trying to portray the Discovery Institute 139 00:19:10,063 --> 00:19:14,132 as being this small, humble organization. 140 00:19:14,167 --> 00:19:20,446 In reality, their offices are much bigger than those of the National Center for Science Education. 141 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:31,900 Bruce Chapman is the founder of the Discovery Institute. 142 00:19:31,935 --> 00:19:36,940 Like Kenneth Miller, he's a Roman Catholic. 143 00:20:06,090 --> 00:20:10,740 They keep claiming that ID has no connection to religion. 144 00:20:10,775 --> 00:20:14,170 Yet, the ID textbook, Of Pandas and People, 145 00:20:14,205 --> 00:20:17,770 was originally a creationist text. 146 00:20:17,805 --> 00:20:24,430 In one draft, someone went through and replaced all references to "creation" with "Intelligent Design," 147 00:20:24,465 --> 00:20:27,890 "creator" with "designer," 148 00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:32,410 and "creationist" with "design proponent." 149 00:20:32,445 --> 00:20:42,920 One of the edits was very sloppy and the result read, "cdesign proponentsists." 150 00:20:42,955 --> 00:20:49,960 This was used in the Dover trial as evidence that ID is just creationism made over. 151 00:20:53,995 --> 00:20:58,810 That's because the debate has, indeed, been settled. 152 00:20:58,845 --> 00:21:04,740 Every piece of scientific evidence confirms evolution, while none support ID. 153 00:21:04,740 --> 00:21:08,398 As discussed before, ID isn't even a proper theory. 154 00:21:08,433 --> 00:21:13,542 This was admitted by ID proponents under cross in the Dover trial. 155 00:21:19,470 --> 00:21:24,940 Why is Jesus never portrayed as someone from the Middle East? 132 00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:37,630 ID proponents claim that we consider something designed if it's complex. 133 00:21:37,665 --> 00:21:41,350 But complexity has nothing to do with it. 134 00:21:41,385 --> 00:21:48,200 We consider something to be designed if we know how and why humans would design something, 135 00:21:48,235 --> 00:21:53,900 and if we know of no natural explanation for it. 136 00:21:53,935 --> 00:21:59,010 The complexity argument is a red herring. 137 00:21:59,045 --> 00:22:03,980 In fact, the Argument from Design was refuted by David Hume 138 00:22:04,015 --> 00:22:09,250 decades before Darwin published his theory. 139 00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:23,910 But questions that are properly answered tend to stay 140 00:22:23,945 --> 00:22:29,280 when people have a religious or political reason for clinging to it. 141 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,310 All theories have problems. 142 00:22:38,345 --> 00:22:43,740 The theory of gravity has much more serious problems than evolution. 143 00:22:43,775 --> 00:22:49,810 If no theory had problems, that would mean that we knew everything. 144 00:22:58,671 --> 00:23:11,091 The scientific definition of evolution is the change in genetic characteristics of a population over generations. 145 00:23:13,660 --> 00:23:17,590 Yes, they have questions about it, 146 00:23:17,625 --> 00:23:30,390 but that doesn't mean they believe it didn't happen. 147 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:41,240 Their quintessential example is what they call "irreducible complexity." 148 00:23:41,275 --> 00:23:47,570 Basically, if a system performs a function that it couldn't with at least one part missing, 149 00:23:47,605 --> 00:23:53,000 then that system is irreducibly complex, and therefore intelligently designed. 150 00:23:53,035 --> 00:23:59,740 The problem is, we see such "irreducibly complex" systems form all the time. 151 00:23:59,775 --> 00:24:05,560 All that evolution requires is that each stage be useful for something, 152 00:24:05,595 --> 00:24:10,070 even if that doesn't end up being the use we see for it today. 153 00:24:11,105 --> 00:24:18,120 "Evolution is just a theory" is a common mantra of the creationist/ID movement. 154 00:24:18,155 --> 00:24:23,840 All they're really saying is that they don't know what the word "theory" means. 155 00:24:23,875 --> 00:24:27,430 Gravity is "just a theory." 156 00:24:27,465 --> 00:24:32,670 Someone takes antibiotics because of "germ theory." 157 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,680 Theories aren't guesses that later turn into facts; 158 00:24:36,715 --> 00:24:43,940 theories explain facts and provide a useful model for understanding the phenomenon. 159 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,790 That isn't how it happens. 160 00:25:02,825 --> 00:25:07,040 Science only accepts an idea and applies it if it's been shown to work. 161 00:25:07,075 --> 00:25:09,900 ID proponents want to bypass that process. 162 00:25:12,610 --> 00:25:17,360 Again, Einstein embodied Newton's theories into his relativity theories. 163 00:25:17,395 --> 00:25:21,239 Their theory must do the same with Darwin. 164 00:25:21,274 --> 00:25:28,241 In fact, the theory of evolution has changed quite significantly since Darwin's day. 165 00:25:28,242 --> 00:25:37,802 Mutations, genetics, endosymbiotics, epigenetics, punctuated equilibrium, and evo-devo 166 00:25:37,837 --> 00:25:46,450 are all examples of concepts which have added to or changed the theory since Darwin's day. 167 00:25:53,770 --> 00:25:55,970 Huh? 168 00:26:16,989 --> 00:26:21,799 Again with the "little guy" stuff. 169 00:26:21,834 --> 00:26:27,844 Like they're David to science's Goliath or something. 170 00:26:33,890 --> 00:26:38,710 Scientists are supposed to propose testable ideas. 171 00:26:45,150 --> 00:26:51,470 That doesn't mean that the other argument isn't wrong. 172 00:26:57,630 --> 00:27:01,300 No one denies that there are counter-arguments, 173 00:27:01,335 --> 00:27:05,890 but these arguments have been falsified scientifically. 174 00:27:05,925 --> 00:27:11,780 For example, one such counter-argument is that new information cannot enter a genome. 175 00:27:11,815 --> 00:27:18,020 But the development of nylon-eating bacteria in the natural world falsifies this, 176 00:27:18,055 --> 00:27:24,260 as does the lab experiment which resulted in citrate-eating E. coli. 177 00:27:26,295 --> 00:27:36,140 Jonathan Wells not only denies evolution, but also denies that HIV causes AIDS. 178 00:27:44,770 --> 00:27:48,770 Oh, the irony... 179 00:28:01,530 --> 00:28:08,330 Can anyone say, "projection"? 180 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:18,690 One of Berlinski's many false claims is that mathematician Jon von Neumann disputed Darwinism. 181 00:28:18,725 --> 00:28:23,460 This is patently false. 182 00:28:23,495 --> 00:28:28,080 Von Neumann was absolutely pro-evolution, 183 00:28:28,115 --> 00:28:33,680 especially with regards to mutation and natural selection. 184 00:28:33,715 --> 00:28:39,200 He used Darwin as an inspiration for his theory of self-replicating automata. 185 00:28:39,235 --> 00:28:46,440 Berlinski has also made misleading arguments about whale evolution. 186 00:28:46,475 --> 00:28:53,410 He claims to have made a quantitative argument debunking it. 187 00:28:53,445 --> 00:29:03,450 By his own admission, it isn't based on any evidence, whether fossil or genetic, about how whales evolved. 188 00:29:03,485 --> 00:29:13,830 He claims that 50,000 separate morphological changes are needed to turn land vertebrates into whales. 189 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:20,670 But since whales evolved over a period of 40 million years, 190 00:29:20,705 --> 00:29:25,820 that would only require one change every 800 years. 191 00:29:25,855 --> 00:29:29,433 No problem for evolution! 192 00:29:29,521 --> 00:29:33,654 Besides, whales don't even have 50,000 genes! 193 00:29:46,390 --> 00:29:54,590 Being "a mess" doesn't make it wrong. 194 00:29:57,830 --> 00:30:00,970 Many sciences have no such "rigor," 195 00:30:01,005 --> 00:30:07,320 including meteorology, climatology, physiology, psychology, and economics. 196 00:30:07,355 --> 00:30:13,550 Mathematics works with absolute proof of clearly defined constructs. 197 00:30:13,585 --> 00:30:17,940 No physical science works this way. 198 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:27,350 He also said, "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." 199 00:30:27,385 --> 00:30:33,750 Apparently, Berlinski would ignore those last three words. 200 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,370 Notice that Dawkins bases his disbelief in God on a lack of evidence, 201 00:30:53,405 --> 00:31:03,570 not a belief in evolution as Stein claims. 202 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:23,140 Very few if any of these have had any significant publications in the field. 203 00:31:39,710 --> 00:31:44,450 Speciation has been observed numerous times in the wild, 204 00:31:44,485 --> 00:31:48,720 and replicated in the laboratory. 205 00:31:48,755 --> 00:31:56,620 In order to deny this, creationists and ID proponents need a mechanism preventing small changes from accumulating. 206 00:31:56,655 --> 00:32:00,070 They don't have one. 207 00:32:00,105 --> 00:32:03,880 The origin of life is abiogenesis, not evolution. 208 00:32:03,915 --> 00:32:07,980 Evolution deals with biology, whereas abiogenesis deals with chemistry. 209 00:32:08,015 --> 00:32:13,380 A lot of progress has been made in the field of abiogenesis. 210 00:32:13,415 --> 00:32:16,200 See the work of Dr. Jack Szostak. 211 00:32:16,235 --> 00:32:25,930 He has a comprehensive theory going from basic organic chemicals to self-replicating and evolving proto-cells. 212 00:32:25,965 --> 00:32:31,070 He has also confirmed this in his laboratory. 213 00:32:31,105 --> 00:32:36,880 Now, this doesn't mean that it happened this way, just that it could have... 214 00:32:36,915 --> 00:32:44,890 but that is all that is needed to falsify the claims of creationists and ID proponents. 215 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,530 Those are four of the five most common elements in the universe. 216 00:32:58,565 --> 00:33:04,480 The fifth is helium, which is completely inert and therefore cannot make molecules. 217 00:33:04,515 --> 00:33:10,230 Recent findings indicate that the energy may have come from the lightning that naturally occurs around volcanic vents. 218 00:33:10,265 --> 00:33:14,520 This would have created the organic molecules necessary for making life. 219 00:33:14,555 --> 00:33:21,130 These molecules are found in many places, including on comets and asteroids. 220 00:33:24,140 --> 00:33:27,080 This is a misrepresentation of the primordial soup theory. 221 00:33:27,115 --> 00:33:31,320 The soup refers simply to the availability of the chemical ingredients, unlike what is pictured. 222 00:33:31,355 --> 00:33:37,230 In reality, it would have been tiny organic molecules floating around in the oceans' convection currents... 223 00:33:37,265 --> 00:33:40,010 which occur near hydrothermal vents. 224 00:33:40,020 --> 00:33:42,840 The Miller-Urey experiments had nothing to do with creating life, 225 00:33:42,875 --> 00:33:47,010 only creating organic molecules such as amino acids. 226 00:33:47,045 --> 00:33:50,810 Their initial experiments found five essential amino acids. 227 00:33:50,845 --> 00:33:56,250 Modern examination of the stored residues from the experiments... 228 00:33:56,285 --> 00:34:00,200 found that there were actually twenty-two amino acids created. 229 00:34:00,235 --> 00:34:04,370 Far from abandoning the Miller-Urey results as Stein claims, 230 00:34:04,405 --> 00:34:09,870 scientists think it may be a very accurate description of what occurred on the early Earth 231 00:34:09,905 --> 00:34:15,960 near the many volcanic vents and geysers that existed at the time. 232 00:34:15,995 --> 00:34:22,030 Dr. Szostak's work, mentioned earlier, makes no use of crystals. 233 00:34:22,065 --> 00:34:29,290 Clay-crystal theory is just one of many options for how abiogenesis could have happened. 234 00:34:32,510 --> 00:34:36,170 Demanding to know the point where non-life becomes life... 235 00:34:36,205 --> 00:34:43,170 is a bit like demanding to know the point where an infant becomes an old man. 236 00:34:45,205 --> 00:34:49,770 It wasn't "mud," Ben. The components were very different. 237 00:34:54,020 --> 00:34:58,370 The biggest problem with Intelligent Design is... 238 00:34:58,380 --> 00:35:02,660 that it tries to solve the problem of the complexity of life... 239 00:35:02,695 --> 00:35:06,350 by postulating its creation by a complex living thing. 240 00:35:06,385 --> 00:35:11,460 But where did that complex living thing come from? 241 00:35:11,495 --> 00:35:18,950 All they've done is just push the problem back a step. 242 00:35:25,950 --> 00:35:30,830 That would only be the case if amino acids and proteins were arranged randomly. 243 00:35:30,865 --> 00:35:35,830 But the laws of chemistry are not random. 244 00:36:00,510 --> 00:36:05,100 This probability argument has been around a long time, and it's complete nonsense. 245 00:36:05,130 --> 00:36:12,090 The probability of being dealt any particular poker hand is 1 in 2.6 million... 246 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,260 but the more you're allowed to discard and draw more cards... 247 00:36:16,290 --> 00:36:19,790 the closer you can get to that winning hand. 248 00:36:19,791 --> 00:36:25,436 So this entire argument is an Appeal to Ignorance 249 00:36:25,437 --> 00:36:31,952 (not to mention Appeal to Ridicule, like so much of this movie). 250 00:36:34,010 --> 00:36:39,660 Apparently, this is what Ben Stein considers a winning argument. 251 00:36:45,420 --> 00:36:48,670 Could you please show your work? 252 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,920 There are an estimated 70 sextillion stars. 253 00:36:55,955 --> 00:37:00,380 If there's an average of just one planet around each of them, 254 00:37:00,415 --> 00:37:05,780 and life is a one-in-a-trillion probability, 255 00:37:05,790 --> 00:37:09,780 then that means that life exists on 70 billion planets! 256 00:37:09,815 --> 00:37:12,980 That's not zero! 257 00:37:13,015 --> 00:37:18,440 And that's assuming that each planet gets one and only one try... 258 00:37:18,475 --> 00:37:23,630 as opposed to chemical reactions happening continuously over billions of years. 259 00:37:24,065 --> 00:37:27,230 Panspermia does not require aliens. 260 00:37:27,265 --> 00:37:30,570 We know meteorites have come to Earth from Mars. 261 00:37:30,605 --> 00:37:35,810 If Mars had ancient life, then that means that life on Earth could have originated on Mars. 262 00:37:35,845 --> 00:37:39,020 Scientists don't accept this theory, 263 00:37:39,055 --> 00:37:43,460 but it has a big advantage over Intelligent Design... 264 00:37:43,495 --> 00:37:48,390 in that it doesn't require the postulation of anything that's unproven. 265 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,820 Of course, for all we know, it could have been aliens... 266 00:37:52,855 --> 00:37:59,410 but like Intelligent Design, that would only push the problem back a step. 267 00:37:59,445 --> 00:38:05,660 Actually, there are some ID proponents who postulate an alien as the designer. 268 00:38:05,695 --> 00:38:11,680 One of these is William Dembski, whom Stein interviewed earlier, and appears again later on. 269 00:38:11,715 --> 00:38:16,650 Yet, Stein ridicules the scientists for this idea and not him. 270 00:38:19,764 --> 00:38:22,215 No, Ben, Darwin didn't think of them as much of anything, 271 00:38:22,250 --> 00:38:25,351 because no one knew much about them at the time. 272 00:38:25,386 --> 00:38:28,901 Cell division wasn't even known prior to 1855. 273 00:38:32,870 --> 00:38:37,350 The original proto-cells and the cells that evolved from them... 274 00:38:37,385 --> 00:38:44,370 would not have been anything like modern cells that have evolved for over three billion years. 275 00:38:44,405 --> 00:38:49,850 Modern cells work too well. 276 00:38:49,885 --> 00:38:55,230 The original cells would have been much simpler. 277 00:38:55,265 --> 00:39:03,320 They would have been fragile and not very good at what they did. 278 00:39:03,355 --> 00:39:09,720 But over the eons, competition with each other would have made the survivors... 279 00:39:09,755 --> 00:39:14,610 progressively better and better at their functions. 280 00:39:14,645 --> 00:39:20,140 Dr. Szostak's theory even has the proto-cells consuming each other in direct competition. 281 00:39:20,150 --> 00:39:24,220 These early cells would have not used DNA. 282 00:39:24,255 --> 00:39:29,050 It wouldn't even have been its single-stranded counterpart, RNA. 283 00:39:29,085 --> 00:39:33,950 There are much more basic versions of the molecule... 284 00:39:33,985 --> 00:39:39,650 which, over time, would have been selected for the ones that work best. 285 00:39:39,685 --> 00:39:45,380 It's very easy to go from this to RNA and then to DNA... 286 00:39:45,415 --> 00:39:51,227 as long as you have enough time for these changes to accumulate. 287 00:39:54,060 --> 00:39:59,133 This is a huge misunderstanding of multi-dimensional mathematics. 288 00:40:03,110 --> 00:40:05,450 All of this is beautiful and wonderful, 289 00:40:05,485 --> 00:40:11,910 but not at all indicative of what early life would have been like. 290 00:40:15,152 --> 00:40:17,270 Incidentally, see that figure in the center? 291 00:40:17,305 --> 00:40:20,609 It looks like it's walking a tight-rope. 292 00:40:20,644 --> 00:40:24,102 That's one of many problems with this animation. 293 00:40:24,137 --> 00:40:27,640 That was a kinesin molecule. 294 00:40:27,675 --> 00:40:31,198 It doesn't really make this deliberate-looking movement. 295 00:40:31,233 --> 00:40:36,525 It's actually a very spastic and chaotic jittering motion. 296 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,515 It ends up going in one direction, but it's not very efficient. 297 00:40:40,550 --> 00:40:44,973 Likewise, all of the shots of different molecules coming together smoothly... 298 00:40:45,008 --> 00:40:48,698 just isn't how it works in an actual cell. 299 00:40:48,733 --> 00:40:52,799 It's more like a cloud of randomly bouncing monomers... 300 00:40:52,834 --> 00:40:58,292 which only lock in when they happen to hit the polymer the right way. 301 00:40:58,293 --> 00:41:04,180 A real cell is much more random and chaotic than what is depicted here. 302 00:41:04,215 --> 00:41:12,650 And remember, all of this is the product of over three billion years of evolution. 303 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,580 These quality-control mechanisms are themselves a product of evolution. 304 00:41:22,615 --> 00:41:25,440 They would not have been present in the first cells. 305 00:41:25,450 --> 00:41:29,730 In the beginning, cells had no limitation on the number of mutations they experienced, 306 00:41:29,765 --> 00:41:35,960 but a cell that had slightly more control over its reproductive changes would have had an advantage. 307 00:41:35,995 --> 00:41:39,640 If a cell mutates too rapidly, it has trouble making viable offspring... 308 00:41:39,675 --> 00:41:43,750 and can be out-competed by cells that don't change as much. 309 00:41:43,785 --> 00:41:47,850 On the other hand, if a cell does too good a job of preventing changes... 310 00:41:47,885 --> 00:41:52,010 it cannot adapt to changing environmental conditions... 311 00:41:52,045 --> 00:41:56,380 or to other cells that evolve new ways of competing with them. 312 00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:00,426 Evolution zeroes these proofreading mechanisms on the happy medium. 313 00:42:00,461 --> 00:42:06,480 Not too many mutations, and not too few, either. 314 00:42:07,580 --> 00:42:11,300 As mentioned earlier, increases in information have been observed. 315 00:42:11,335 --> 00:42:17,312 In the case of nylon-eating bacteria, the first step was an accidental duplication 316 00:42:17,313 --> 00:42:22,050 of the gene that allows it to digest food from its environment. 317 00:42:22,085 --> 00:42:27,200 With two copies of the gene, one could mutate without harming the organism. 318 00:42:27,235 --> 00:42:33,550 Later on, a frame shift changed the structure of the resulting protein... 319 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:39,630 and allowed the bacteria to digest nylon byproducts never before seen on Earth. 320 00:42:39,665 --> 00:42:46,560 The result was a new gene with information that had not existed before... 321 00:42:46,570 --> 00:42:55,260 allowing the bacteria to digest a substance that had not existed before. 322 00:42:55,261 --> 00:43:00,313 There are many other such examples of new information and new genes being created, 323 00:43:00,348 --> 00:43:05,133 including hundreds in the human body. 324 00:43:14,460 --> 00:43:16,750 Right, because those aren't testable. 325 00:43:16,780 --> 00:43:21,863 In 1966, Lynn Margulis published a paper suggesting that the mitochondria in human cells... 326 00:43:21,864 --> 00:43:25,062 were originally bacterial invaders. 327 00:43:25,097 --> 00:43:29,910 It was rejected for publication numerous times and her idea dismissed by mainstream biologists. 328 00:43:29,945 --> 00:43:34,710 But she came up with a genuine theory and ways to test it. 329 00:43:34,745 --> 00:43:39,630 In 1970, she published a book, "Origin of Eukaryotic Cells." 330 00:43:39,665 --> 00:43:45,860 She kept doing the experiments, and other scientists began verifying them. 331 00:43:45,895 --> 00:43:50,850 She began receiving accolades in the scientific world in the 1980s... 332 00:43:50,885 --> 00:43:55,470 and in the 1990s her theory was accepted. 333 00:43:55,505 --> 00:44:03,950 In 1995, Richard Dawkins praised her for her tenacity turning an unorthodox idea into an orthodox one. 334 00:44:03,985 --> 00:44:10,000 Now, her theory is taught in school textbooks. 335 00:44:10,035 --> 00:44:15,430 That is the process for getting attention for an unorthodox idea, and getting it accepted. 336 00:44:15,465 --> 00:44:21,570 ID proponents try to bypass this process and get it directly in the textbooks. 337 00:44:21,605 --> 00:44:30,370 It took Lynn Margulis over 30 years and lots of hard work and testing in order to get to that point. 338 00:44:30,405 --> 00:44:35,430 ID proponents haven't even provided a valid theory that can be tested. 339 00:44:42,310 --> 00:44:45,420 This claim is ridiculous. 340 00:44:45,455 --> 00:44:52,060 Go to any scientific conference and you see dissent all over the place. 341 00:44:52,095 --> 00:44:57,810 Dissent is welcome as long as the dissent is based on a testable theory. 342 00:45:12,410 --> 00:45:17,930 In truth, a good way to get grant money and scientific respect is to question a paradigm. 343 00:45:17,965 --> 00:45:22,110 If you have a viable theory, that is. 344 00:45:32,110 --> 00:45:36,260 They aren't "afraid of free speech," Ben. 345 00:45:36,295 --> 00:45:43,560 They don't like science being misrepresented. 346 00:45:43,595 --> 00:45:48,390 Close scrutiny of theories is the modus operandi of science, 347 00:45:48,425 --> 00:45:53,530 but ID proponents would like you to believe that it's never allowed... 348 00:45:53,565 --> 00:45:59,240 so that they can give their claims an air of legitimacy. 349 00:45:59,275 --> 00:46:06,490 Otherwise, it would be completely obvious to everybody that they have absolutely nothing to offer. 350 00:46:06,491 --> 00:46:14,554 In fact, it's the "close scrutiny" of the ideas of ID that led do it being rejected as valid science. 351 00:46:14,589 --> 00:46:19,215 The discussion they say they want has already happened and was over, long ago. 352 00:46:28,583 --> 00:46:32,438 Note that Stein keeps using the weael-word "gospel" 353 00:46:32,473 --> 00:46:38,364 to dishonestly imply that Evolution is a religious belief. 354 00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:59,000 NCSE's web site: www.ncse.com 355 00:47:25,850 --> 00:47:32,020 Yes, she is, Ben. She has the data to back it up. 356 00:47:32,055 --> 00:47:38,450 Whereas ol' Benny hasn't presented any data at all to back up his claims. 357 00:47:38,485 --> 00:47:42,901 Are you beginning to see why the producers of this movie... 358 00:47:42,902 --> 00:47:48,290 thought it would be "confusing" to interview a Christian evolutionist? 359 00:47:55,350 --> 00:47:59,355 Remember that Dawkins's remarks are entirely out-of-context. 360 00:47:59,355 --> 00:48:04,917 He thought the movie was about "the intersection of science and religion." 361 00:48:09,700 --> 00:48:14,780 Yes, Ben, because as mentioned before many scientists do it. 362 00:48:14,815 --> 00:48:18,040 Evolution does not preclude a creator. 363 00:48:18,075 --> 00:48:22,840 Nothing in science precludes a creator. 364 00:48:22,875 --> 00:48:26,880 But nothing in science points to a creator, either. 365 00:48:26,915 --> 00:48:34,460 So the default position of science is that a creator is like every other unsubstantiated idea... 366 00:48:34,495 --> 00:48:41,550 including fairies, mermaids, and the Flying Spaghetti Monster. 367 00:48:41,585 --> 00:48:47,030 As Dr. Shermer pointed out earlier, it's in a different class to things that have been outright falsified. 368 00:48:47,065 --> 00:48:54,480 Creationists and ID proponents take the falsification science has done of their ideas... 369 00:48:54,490 --> 00:49:00,910 and make it look like a falsification of God when it really isn't, 370 00:49:00,945 --> 00:49:10,910 Professor Dawkins's opinion notwithstanding. 371 00:49:26,330 --> 00:49:30,650 Because it isn't in any way an even debate. 372 00:49:30,685 --> 00:49:38,700 Come up with a coherent theory that is testable, falsifiable, and conforms to the Correspondence Principle... 373 00:49:38,701 --> 00:49:42,471 and do the work to develop it like Dr. Margulis did... 374 00:49:42,510 --> 00:49:50,910 and then it'll be an even debate. 375 00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:11,080 Maybe because that's what you guys have been saying for ten years? 376 00:50:11,115 --> 00:50:18,170 This argument has been made by Michael Behe and others in the case of irreducible complexity, 377 00:50:18,205 --> 00:50:23,480 and by Dembski and others in the case of specified complexity. 378 00:50:27,780 --> 00:50:33,580 Sure, if you call journalistic integrity "pressure." 379 00:50:37,220 --> 00:50:43,380 Winnick has been using ID talking points in her articles for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette since 2000. 380 00:50:43,415 --> 00:50:50,300 In 2001, she interviewed Michael Behe and was panned because she only used softball questions. 381 00:50:50,335 --> 00:50:56,990 When she reviewed PBS's Evolution series, she said that ID "began about a decade ago when serious scientists-- 382 00:50:56,991 --> 00:51:03,680 "many with doctorates from prestigious universities-- began to tackle evolution on scientific grounds." 383 00:51:03,715 --> 00:51:08,800 How this is not taking sides is a mystery only resolved in Stein's imagination. 384 00:51:08,835 --> 00:51:12,790 Even so, she was not in any way "finished as a journalist." 385 00:51:12,825 --> 00:51:16,500 In fact, she still writes articles for the Post-Gazette... 386 00:51:16,535 --> 00:51:21,090 including a blatantly anti-evolution piece published in 2005. 387 00:51:21,125 --> 00:51:28,570 She has also written articles for the Weekly Standard and the Wall Street Journal. 388 00:51:28,605 --> 00:51:32,850 Funny sort of blacklist, this. 389 00:51:32,885 --> 00:51:40,420 She also published a book in 2005 entitled, "A Jealous God: Science's Crusade Against Religion." 390 00:51:40,455 --> 00:51:47,080 The accusation that she was "finished as a journalist" is ridiculous, 391 00:51:47,115 --> 00:51:52,540 and the assertion that she was unbiased is laughable. 392 00:51:52,575 --> 00:51:58,390 The court cases, of course, have nothing to do with the ordinary controversies of science... 393 00:51:58,425 --> 00:52:06,680 only the fact that creationists and ID proponents have tried to bypass the scientific method... 394 00:52:06,715 --> 00:52:15,180 by getting their ideas straight into the classroom without scientific review. 395 00:52:15,215 --> 00:52:20,280 The judge in the Dover trial was John Jones. 396 00:52:20,315 --> 00:52:26,410 Jones is a conservative judge and a Bush appointee. 397 00:52:26,445 --> 00:52:33,030 Before the trial, the Discovery Institute lauded Jones and expressed hope that he would rule on their side. 398 00:52:33,065 --> 00:52:43,790 When he didn't, they suddenly changed their opinion and labelled him a liberal activist judge. 399 00:52:43,825 --> 00:52:48,130 Now, why has Benny-boy gone to Poland? 400 00:52:48,165 --> 00:52:52,630 If this is just an American phenomenon... 401 00:52:52,665 --> 00:52:58,950 why not go to Canada, or the UK, or France, or Germany, or Sweden... 402 00:52:58,985 --> 00:53:05,240 or even Norway or Denmark? 403 00:53:05,275 --> 00:53:09,838 Why Poland? Cherry-picking, maybe? 404 00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:16,314 This is a non-point; Clarence Darrow wanted a guilty verdict in the Scopes trial. 405 00:53:16,214 --> 00:53:22,065 In fact, he specifically asked the jury to find Scopes guilty. 406 00:53:22,100 --> 00:53:26,880 The reason was so that he could appeal and get the law overturned. 407 00:53:26,915 --> 00:53:31,870 Only an appellate court can overturn the law. 408 00:53:31,905 --> 00:53:38,120 In reality, the guilty verdict was overturned on a technicality. 409 00:53:38,155 --> 00:53:43,010 The Tennessee legislature repealed the law. 410 00:53:43,110 --> 00:53:49,850 There is no way in which the evolution side could be said to have lost. 411 00:54:16,780 --> 00:54:21,540 Only because certain religious people have turned it into one. 412 00:54:35,720 --> 00:54:39,530 Remember that these scientists were lied to about the movie's subject. 413 00:54:40,630 --> 00:54:45,520 There is a difference between stamping out ID and stamping out religion. 414 00:54:49,188 --> 00:54:56,281 In 2009, Dawkins published another book, "The Greatest Show On Earth: The Evidence for Evolution." 415 00:55:27,950 --> 00:55:33,290 Professor Dawkins, in his response to The Dawkins Delusion: 416 00:55:33,300 --> 00:55:38,300 "I never tire of emphasising how much we don't know. The God Delusion ends in just such a theme." 417 00:55:38,335 --> 00:55:44,380 "But whereas I and other scientists are humble enough to say we don't know, what of theologians like McGrath?" 418 00:55:44,410 --> 00:55:46,580 "Christian doctrine is remarkably specific: 419 00:55:46,581 --> 00:55:50,920 "not only with cut-and-dried answers to the deep problems of the universe and life, 420 00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:57,950 "but about the divinity of Jesus, about sin and redemption, heaven and hell, prayer and absolute morality. 421 00:55:57,990 --> 00:56:03,829 "And yet McGrath has the almighty gall to accuse me of a 'glossy,' 'quick fix,' naive faith... 422 00:56:03,830 --> 00:56:07,610 "that science has all the answers." 423 00:56:07,640 --> 00:56:13,730 "Is McGrath an 'ideological fanatic' because he doesn't believe in Thor's hammer? Of course not. 424 00:56:13,770 --> 00:56:20,720 "Why, then, does he suggest I am exactly that because I see no reason to believe in the particular God... 425 00:56:20,750 --> 00:56:29,540 "whose existence he, lacking both evidence and humility, positively asserts?" 426 00:56:29,575 --> 00:56:36,200 Published in The Times Online, 12 February 2007. 427 00:56:56,680 --> 00:57:04,610 Ridiculous. You don't even get complete consensus among scientists about issues in their field. 428 00:57:04,645 --> 00:57:12,280 There's no more a scientific war on religion than there is a scientific war on Republicans vs. Democrats, 429 00:57:12,310 --> 00:57:18,370 or meat eaters vs. vegetarians. 430 00:57:27,090 --> 00:57:30,050 Who's saying that? 431 00:57:30,090 --> 00:57:35,070 Certainly not Dawkins, as we just saw. 432 00:57:35,105 --> 00:57:41,180 In fact, he has stated that his certainty about God's non-existence is "six out of seven." 433 00:57:54,680 --> 00:58:00,190 Of course, he gives absolutely no support for this, that we see. 434 00:58:20,189 --> 00:58:24,337 More out-of-context remarks. 435 00:58:35,230 --> 00:58:39,650 Isaac Newton's belief in God got in the way of his science on at least one occasion. 436 00:58:39,660 --> 00:58:45,840 He had trouble modelling the solar system because of the minute tugs of the planets on each other. 437 00:58:45,870 --> 00:58:52,160 He attributed the stability of the solar system to "the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being." 438 00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,660 In other words, God did it. 439 00:58:55,700 --> 00:59:01,640 It took another century for the answer to be found. 440 00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:09,220 It was found by P.S. de Laplace, who took on the challenge and developed Perturbation Theory. 441 00:59:09,260 --> 00:59:14,680 Newton had God as a crutch, so he didn't put the work into explaining it. 442 00:59:14,710 --> 00:59:19,910 But as Laplace said to Napoleon, he had "no need of that hypothesis." 443 00:59:19,950 --> 00:59:25,990 The true answer was delayed a hundred years, because of a belief in God. 444 00:59:30,420 --> 00:59:35,730 Is it just me, or are you really wanting him to interview some guy named "Bueller"? 445 00:59:57,790 --> 01:00:02,860 Actually, many scientists consider evolution to be a designer. 446 01:00:02,895 --> 01:00:10,500 It's not a top-down intelligent designer, but it is a bottom-up tinkering designer. 447 01:00:10,540 --> 01:00:17,351 Recently, NASA used evolutionary algorithms based on mutation and natural selection 448 01:00:17,352 --> 01:00:23,610 to design an antenna for their new generation of satellites. 449 01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:31,510 A lot of work has been done on evolutionary algorithms, including by my friend Dr. Lee Graham. 450 01:00:31,550 --> 01:00:37,900 You can see the results of his work at StellarAlchemy.com. 451 01:00:37,940 --> 01:00:42,130 Some scientists disagree, in particular Richard Dawkins. 452 01:00:42,165 --> 01:00:47,840 He prefers to call evolutionarily- designed objects "designoid." 453 01:00:47,870 --> 01:00:54,250 It all depends on whether you think a design must be directed from the top down. 454 01:00:54,280 --> 01:01:01,360 But really, all you're arguing there is the definition of "design." 455 01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:07,350 The fact that objects designed from the bottom up can look like they were designed by a top-down designer... 456 01:01:07,390 --> 01:01:15,730 is at the crux of the false assumption the ID people make. 457 01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:46,862 There's certainly no indication his words are typical of the beliefs of scientists or atheists. 458 01:01:49,635 --> 01:01:56,579 Dr. William B. Provine is still alive and teaching ecology and evolutionary biology at Cornell University. 459 01:01:58,875 --> 01:02:04,450 There is no scientific consensus that evolution precludes free will. 460 01:02:04,490 --> 01:02:12,410 In fact, some scientists think that quantum mechanics may allow free will to exist naturalistically. 461 01:02:19,030 --> 01:02:27,780 PZ Myers, as you recall, was misled into thinking this movie was about "the intersection of science and religion." 462 01:02:55,350 --> 01:03:02,040 The interesting thing here is that Stein is not criticizing them for taking an unscientific position about God. 463 01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:07,920 He is criticizing them for allowing evolution to take away the gap where their God existed. 464 01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:12,430 This is another problem with creationism/ID: the God of the Gaps. 465 01:03:12,460 --> 01:03:18,810 "Irreducible complexity" is a perfect example of the God of the Gaps. 466 01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:24,910 It says, in essence, "I don't understand how this could have come about naturally, 467 01:03:24,940 --> 01:03:29,460 "therefore, God must have done it." 468 01:03:29,500 --> 01:03:35,900 Of course, the fact that an explanation isn't known doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. 469 01:03:35,940 --> 01:03:42,364 The underlying implication here is that the person holding to the God of the Gaps... 470 01:03:42,365 --> 01:03:46,800 must know absolutely everything about the natural world. 471 01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:52,180 Talk about hubris! 472 01:04:16,954 --> 01:04:22,744 Again, remember that PZ was misled as to the subject of the film. 473 01:04:22,779 --> 01:04:29,733 He was told it was about "the intersection of science and religion." 474 01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:05,190 He didn't say utopia, Ben. Don't use hyperbole. 475 01:05:14,430 --> 01:05:24,510 Here, Stein reproduces the fallacy that atheism was responsible for totalitarian regimes. 476 01:05:24,545 --> 01:05:32,230 The truth is, these regimes were as dogmatic as religion is, albeit in different ways. 477 01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:37,660 Stalin's disbelief in God didn't have anything more do do with his murderous policies... 478 01:05:37,700 --> 01:05:43,140 than his disbelief in Leprechauns. 479 01:06:06,750 --> 01:06:10,380 This is absolutely untrue. 480 01:06:10,390 --> 01:06:14,930 Hitler wrote about extermination of the Jews. 481 01:06:14,960 --> 01:06:20,920 That idea had been around for centuries before Darwin came along. 482 01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:26,120 The only difference is, Hitler had the technology to do it on a massive scale. 483 01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:31,690 What he doesn't tell you is, in Mein Kampf Hitler made numerous references to God. 484 01:06:31,730 --> 01:06:37,550 Hitler thought he was doing God's holy work. 485 01:06:37,580 --> 01:06:44,830 Hitler was a Christian who heavily criticized the rest of Christendom for letting the Jews live so long. 486 01:06:44,865 --> 01:06:49,610 In fact, Hitler's beliefs were diametrically opposite to Darwin's. 487 01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:54,320 Hitler believed that the Aryans were the supreme race. 488 01:06:54,360 --> 01:07:01,030 His extermination of millions of Jews was nothing fundamentally different from what dog breeders had been doing for millenia. 489 01:07:01,060 --> 01:07:06,870 It's artificial selection. It way predates Darwin. 490 01:07:06,900 --> 01:07:12,850 What Darwin did was look at this process of selection and apply it to nature. 491 01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:21,010 He realized that nature undergoes a selection process, not goal-oriented like artificial selection, 492 01:07:21,050 --> 01:07:25,630 and not intelligently directed, 493 01:07:25,670 --> 01:07:33,860 but it goes through a natural process of selecting the forms that are best able to survive. 494 01:07:33,900 --> 01:07:43,170 If Hitler had really been a Darwinist, he would have done absolutely nothing. 495 01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:51,300 He would have believed that natural selection would kill off the Jews. 496 01:07:51,330 --> 01:08:03,890 Instead, he took a decidedly anti-Darwinian course of action and took matters into his own hands. 497 01:08:03,925 --> 01:08:10,110 Killing off the sick or the handicapped is not at all Darwinian. 498 01:08:10,140 --> 01:08:20,130 In fact, our ability to care for our sick and equip our handicapped increases our survival potential. 499 01:08:20,131 --> 01:08:25,297 As a matter of fact, not only were Hitler's ideas not Darwinian at all... 500 01:08:25,332 --> 01:08:32,616 but the works of Darwin were actually banned by the Nazis. 501 01:08:39,830 --> 01:08:45,100 Charles Darwin, from The Descent of Man: 502 01:08:45,140 --> 01:08:49,629 "With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; 503 01:08:49,664 --> 01:08:54,343 and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. 504 01:08:54,378 --> 01:08:58,860 "We civilized men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination; 505 01:08:58,900 --> 01:09:06,560 "we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed, and the sick; we institute poor-laws; 506 01:09:06,590 --> 01:09:15,320 "and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment." 507 01:09:15,330 --> 01:09:19,280 Eugenics began not with Darwin, but Herbert Spencer. 508 01:09:19,310 --> 01:09:27,930 This misnamed "Social Darwinism" was put forth by Spencer before Darwin published Origin of Species. 509 01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:33,750 It is from this, not Darwin, that we get the phrase "survival of the fittest." 510 01:09:33,780 --> 01:09:41,880 Even after Origin was published, Spencer was not a Darwinist. 511 01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:48,130 Darwin did not equate evolution with upwardly-mobile progress. 512 01:09:48,170 --> 01:09:53,250 Spencer stuck with Lamarckian evolution. 513 01:09:53,290 --> 01:10:00,610 Spencer believed that humanitarian interests should not be used to interfere with nature's laws, 514 01:10:00,650 --> 01:10:08,250 whereas Darwin considered these humanitarian interests a part of the evolutionary survival of humans. 515 01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:10,369 No, they weren't. 516 01:11:10,404 --> 01:11:17,416 We've already discussed how their program was not Darwinism in any way, shape, or form. 517 01:11:17,451 --> 01:11:21,073 In fact, it's the diametric opposite. 518 01:11:24,172 --> 01:11:31,433 You know, you'd think the producers would have included clips of Hitler talking about Darwin, but they didnt. 519 01:11:31,468 --> 01:11:36,518 Probably because he didn't say anything about it. 520 01:11:41,270 --> 01:11:44,570 Names, please? 521 01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:54,330 Can we have their names? 522 01:11:56,310 --> 01:11:59,150 Guess not. 523 01:12:06,890 --> 01:12:13,020 Eugenics is based on Lamarckian, not Darwinian, evolution. 524 01:12:13,030 --> 01:12:18,030 Lamarckism is progressive, and acquired fortunes or detriments are passed on to the next generation. 525 01:12:18,065 --> 01:12:22,640 Darwinism lacks the perfect equilibrium that Lamarckian eugenics seeks. 526 01:12:22,675 --> 01:12:27,002 The American Eugenics program had nothing to do with Darwinism, either. 527 01:12:27,037 --> 01:12:29,430 It wasn't even much like Spencer's eugenics, 528 01:12:29,470 --> 01:12:33,202 although it was a lot closer than Hitler's version. 529 01:12:34,475 --> 01:12:38,160 20,000 of those were sterilized in California alone. 530 01:12:38,190 --> 01:12:40,780 All total, 33 states had a Eugenics program. 531 01:12:40,810 --> 01:12:44,650 Oregon was the last. It repealed its forced sterilization law in 1983. 532 01:12:44,690 --> 01:12:48,270 The last forced sterilization in the United States was 1978. 533 01:12:48,305 --> 01:12:52,380 Planned Parenthood is in no way eugenics. 534 01:12:52,410 --> 01:12:56,910 It's about people on their own deciding when to have children. 535 01:12:56,950 --> 01:13:00,890 Eugenics is imposed through intervention. 536 01:13:00,925 --> 01:13:06,470 Birth control was and is seen as a benefit to the poor so they don't have to worry about more mouths to feed. 537 01:13:07,505 --> 01:13:11,970 One of the biggest proponents of eugenics among American scientists was William Shockley. 538 01:13:12,010 --> 01:13:16,640 He was in favor of sterilizations based on low IQ. 539 01:13:16,680 --> 01:13:21,710 As one of the inventors of the transistor, which won him and two others a Nobel Prize, 540 01:13:21,740 --> 01:13:25,190 he should have been highly regarded among scientists. 541 01:13:25,220 --> 01:13:31,350 But, contrary to the idea you'd get from watching this movie, his fellow scientists considered him a kook. 542 01:13:31,390 --> 01:13:34,950 They considered his eugenics ideas bigoted and unworthy of a respected scientist. 543 01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:38,950 One British victim of forced sterilization was Alan Turing. 544 01:13:38,985 --> 01:13:43,370 Turing is considered the father of modern computer science. 545 01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:48,140 His Turing Test revolutionized the field of Artificial Intelligence. 546 01:13:48,180 --> 01:13:55,550 Turing was homosexual, which in the UK at the time was illegal and considered a mental illness. 547 01:13:55,580 --> 01:14:02,780 Turing was charged under the same law Oscar Wilde had been convicted of more than fifty years earlier. 548 01:14:02,810 --> 01:14:09,460 He was sentenced to chemical castration and had to receive forced injections. 549 01:14:09,500 --> 01:14:15,050 In 1954, he was found dead of cyanide poisoning. 550 01:14:15,090 --> 01:14:21,070 It is believed to be a suicide, but details are ambiguous. 551 01:14:25,980 --> 01:14:31,479 German historian Andrew Zimmerman said that Weikart "distorts the history of Darwinism... 552 01:14:31,480 --> 01:14:39,270 "and anti-Darwinism in Germany in ways that reflect theocratic agendas in present-day American politics." 553 01:14:39,310 --> 01:14:44,880 Ann Taylor Allen, professor of German history, said of Zimmerman's book: 554 01:14:44,910 --> 01:14:51,030 "This picture of the Holocaust as the outcome of a 'culture war' between religion and science... 555 01:14:51,031 --> 01:14:55,150 "leads to serious distortions on both sides." 556 01:14:55,180 --> 01:14:59,540 "If all these ideas were to fall into well-deserved obsolescence, 557 01:14:59,570 --> 01:15:07,640 "this would in no way detract from the validity of Darwin's contributions to modern biological science. 558 01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:16,200 "Neither religion nor science is well served by this oversimplified view of their complex history." 559 01:15:28,420 --> 01:15:35,620 One could easily ask the same question about religion, even Christianity... 560 01:15:35,660 --> 01:15:40,930 and with a much greater degree of justification. 561 01:15:40,965 --> 01:15:45,570 Crusades, inquisitions, witch hunts, and other forms of mass murder... 562 01:15:45,610 --> 01:15:51,080 all had their direct and unmistakable justifications in the Bible. 563 01:15:51,110 --> 01:15:58,040 There are no such justifications for genocide anywhere in Darwin's writings. 564 01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:04,110 In Voyage of the Beagle, Darwin expressed the love he held for people all over the globe, 565 01:16:04,140 --> 01:16:09,420 and clearly expressed his extreme hatred of slavery. 566 01:16:09,460 --> 01:16:15,840 In Descent of Man, he lamented the British imperialism... 567 01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:22,370 which had resulted in the extermination of several native peoples. 568 01:16:38,390 --> 01:16:45,530 It is an "elite" only in the sense that some people know more about it than others. 569 01:16:54,094 --> 01:16:57,597 Yeah, right; it must be a conspiracy. 570 01:16:57,632 --> 01:17:03,028 It couldn't possibly be because his side has no data to back it up. 571 01:17:24,370 --> 01:17:28,850 Another difference between Darwinism and eugenics... 572 01:17:28,890 --> 01:17:36,880 is that eugenics seeks to reduce the diversity of inherited characteristics. 573 01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:45,180 Darwinism works best when that diversity is enhanced and added to, not culled. 574 01:18:08,490 --> 01:18:12,490 This is quoted out of context. 575 01:18:12,525 --> 01:18:17,670 Several key phrases were eliminated from the middle. 576 01:18:17,705 --> 01:18:22,770 A more complete version of the quote was given earlier in these subtitles. 577 01:18:32,460 --> 01:18:36,920 This part is not even a complete sentence. 578 01:18:36,950 --> 01:18:43,143 More completely: "It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, 579 01:18:43,144 --> 01:18:46,240 "leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; 580 01:18:46,270 --> 01:18:53,610 "but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly anyone is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed. 581 01:18:53,645 --> 01:18:57,283 "The aid which we feel impelled to give to the helpless... 582 01:18:57,318 --> 01:19:01,456 "is mainly an incidental result of the instinct of sympathy, 583 01:19:01,491 --> 01:19:07,190 "which was originally acquired as part of the social instincts, 584 01:19:07,191 --> 01:19:11,528 "but subsequently rendered, in the manner previously indicated, 585 01:19:11,529 --> 01:19:16,240 "more tender and more widely diffused. 586 01:19:16,241 --> 01:19:22,137 "Nor could we check our sympathy, even at the urging of hard reason, 587 01:19:22,138 --> 01:19:27,378 "without deterioration in the noblest part of our nature." 588 01:19:27,379 --> 01:19:34,871 The omitted phrases show the passage to be the opposite of what Stein makes it out to be. 589 01:19:34,930 --> 01:19:38,580 From Voyage of the Beagle: 590 01:19:38,610 --> 01:19:47,290 "[I]f the misery of our poor be caused not by the laws of nature, but by our institutions, great is our sin..." 591 01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:55,740 "And these deeds are done and palliated by men, who profess to love their neighbours as themselves, 592 01:19:55,780 --> 01:20:02,480 "who believe in God, and pray that his Will be done on earth! 593 01:20:02,510 --> 01:20:11,039 "It makes one's blood boil, yet heart tremble, to think that we...have been and are so guilty: 594 01:20:11,074 --> 01:20:18,630 "but it is a consolation to reflect, that we at least have made a greater sacrifice, 595 01:20:18,665 --> 01:20:28,039 "than ever made by any nation, to expiate our sin." 596 01:20:38,850 --> 01:20:43,830 As we've seen, they're grossly misrepresenting what's going on. 597 01:20:43,870 --> 01:20:49,930 None of their cases have turned out to be what they said they were. 598 01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:56,520 They have not provided any actual evidence of persecution. 599 01:20:56,555 --> 01:21:02,630 Intelligent Design is absolutely free to participate in science... 600 01:21:02,670 --> 01:21:08,250 as long as they conform to the scientific method and produce a viable theory. 601 01:21:08,290 --> 01:21:11,860 As long as they keep saying things that have been falsified decades ago, 602 01:21:11,900 --> 01:21:15,790 they'll continue to be shunned. 603 01:21:15,830 --> 01:21:19,330 That's as it should be. 604 01:21:21,865 --> 01:21:25,720 Here's a Jefferson quote for you: 605 01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:31,330 "Question with boldness even the existence of a God; 606 01:21:31,370 --> 01:21:40,900 "because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason 607 01:21:40,940 --> 01:21:45,840 "than that of blind-folded fear." 608 01:21:50,350 --> 01:21:56,391 Again, none of these scientists were "expelled." 609 01:22:06,740 --> 01:22:10,600 Dr. Scott's reply: 610 01:22:10,630 --> 01:22:16,540 "Who is Ben Stein to say what is science and not science? 611 01:22:16,580 --> 01:22:20,650 "None of us speak for science. 612 01:22:20,680 --> 01:22:27,650 "Scientists vary all over the map in their religious and philosophical views, 613 01:22:27,690 --> 01:22:32,780 "for example, Francis Collins, so no one can speak for science." 614 01:22:32,815 --> 01:22:37,550 --from eSkeptic, 17 April 2008 615 01:22:41,440 --> 01:22:44,570 Again, that isn't what happened. 616 01:22:52,160 --> 01:22:56,980 Remember that it was a non-tenure track contract. 617 01:23:03,270 --> 01:23:08,970 Again, such contracts fail to be renewed all the time for reasons of class demand. 618 01:23:20,730 --> 01:23:27,120 Because it didn't. 619 01:23:27,150 --> 01:23:34,870 It had to do with him misrepresenting a University connection with a nonexistent laboratory. 620 01:23:34,900 --> 01:23:39,190 They were willing to allow him to keep the web site, 621 01:23:39,220 --> 01:23:44,420 as long as he removed the word "laboratory" and included a disclaimer. 622 01:23:44,460 --> 01:23:50,490 Marks refused, and the web site was moved to an external hosting provider. 623 01:23:50,525 --> 01:23:55,400 The site could have been about basket weaving and the same thing would have happened. 624 01:24:16,020 --> 01:24:21,450 Notice how these are short quotes devoid of context. 625 01:24:39,931 --> 01:24:45,869 Note the jump-cut: it's likely something was cut here. 626 01:24:59,060 --> 01:25:03,500 I've got a few new candidates for the epithet "idiot," myself. 627 01:25:39,480 --> 01:25:43,510 Again, there is one way they could do this: 628 01:25:43,550 --> 01:25:46,990 Come up with a coherent theory. 629 01:25:47,025 --> 01:25:51,110 Put in the work to confirm its predictions. 630 01:25:51,140 --> 01:25:56,480 Make it correspond with existing scientific knowledge. 631 01:25:56,520 --> 01:26:01,300 It can be done. 632 01:26:01,330 --> 01:26:07,230 Just ask Lynn Margulis. 633 01:26:15,110 --> 01:26:22,820 And they could come over to that side of the wall any time they wanted to. 634 01:26:22,850 --> 01:26:30,210 That is, if the theory they come up with passes its own tests. 635 01:26:30,250 --> 01:26:36,240 If there's any merit to the idea, it would work. 636 01:27:08,241 --> 01:27:17,592 One wonders what the point of these long transitional sequences is. 637 01:27:24,578 --> 01:27:34,239 Now, do you really think Benny-Benny-Bo-Benny just walked right off the street straight into the interview? 638 01:27:34,274 --> 01:27:42,253 As if he didn't go through the same make-up preparations. 639 01:27:42,288 --> 01:27:52,389 Might they be trying to make Dawkins look vain and Stein look like an ordinary guy? 640 01:27:52,424 --> 01:28:00,306 Everyone on camera gets makeup. Directors insist on it. 641 01:28:00,307 --> 01:28:05,046 So yes, Stein got the same make-up job. 642 01:30:43,140 --> 01:30:47,400 Dawkins on this next exchange: 643 01:30:47,430 --> 01:30:51,045 "Stein asked whether I could think of any circumstances whatsoever... 644 01:30:51,046 --> 01:30:54,660 "under which intelligent design might have occurred. 645 01:30:54,700 --> 01:31:02,300 "It's the kind of challenge I relish, and I set myself the task of imagining the most plausible scenario I could. 646 01:31:02,340 --> 01:31:09,530 "I wanted to give ID its best shot, however poor that best shot might be." 647 01:31:09,570 --> 01:31:14,003 "I patiently explained to him that life could conceivably have been seeded on Earth..." 648 01:31:14,004 --> 01:31:19,220 "by an alien intelligence from another planet..." 649 01:31:19,260 --> 01:31:23,560 "The conclusion I was heading towards was that, even in the highly unlikely event... 650 01:31:23,561 --> 01:31:27,860 "that some such 'Directed Panspermia' was responsible for designing life on this planet, 651 01:31:27,890 --> 01:31:34,030 "the alien beings would THEMSELVES have to have evolved." 652 01:31:34,065 --> 01:31:37,630 --RichardDawkins.net, 23 March 2008 653 01:31:37,660 --> 01:31:41,210 This is the big unanswered question of Intelligent Design: 654 01:31:41,250 --> 01:31:44,190 Who designed the designer? 655 01:31:44,220 --> 01:31:51,300 If we're so complex as to require a designer, that designer must be complex as well. 656 01:31:51,340 --> 01:31:55,850 So the designer needs a designer, 657 01:31:55,851 --> 01:32:00,851 and that designer needs a designer, 658 01:32:00,880 --> 01:32:05,320 and you end up in an infinite regress. 659 01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:28,800 The rational atheist conclusion for the nonexistence of God... 660 01:32:28,840 --> 01:32:33,660 is an expression of the scientific principle of the Null Hypothesis. 661 01:32:33,700 --> 01:32:41,790 In science, when you posit the existence of something, you begin by assuming it doesn't exist. 662 01:32:41,820 --> 01:32:48,530 You then test for its existence against the Null Hypothesis. 663 01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:53,440 If the test fails, the Null Hypothesis wins. 664 01:32:53,480 --> 01:32:56,910 It doesn't mean that the thing doesn't exist, 665 01:32:56,940 --> 01:33:01,820 but it hasn't been shown to exist, 666 01:33:12,181 --> 01:33:15,745 Wait...I thought ID wasn't religion? 667 01:33:15,780 --> 01:33:20,873 So, what's all this talk about God? 668 01:33:21,700 --> 01:33:26,730 What if science did find God? 669 01:33:26,760 --> 01:33:31,740 Then it is the rational atheists like Dawkins... 670 01:33:31,780 --> 01:33:37,030 who would be best able to study him. 671 01:33:37,060 --> 01:33:41,700 They would be able to examine him without bias. 672 01:33:41,730 --> 01:33:47,750 But a religious person would see it as a vindication of all they believed in. 673 01:33:47,790 --> 01:33:54,170 It would confirm every dogma and every preconceived notion they held. 674 01:33:54,200 --> 01:34:01,240 They would be in a position of having to shirk off all of that bias... 675 01:34:01,280 --> 01:34:09,050 if the God we find is even slightly different to the one they believe in... 676 01:34:09,080 --> 01:34:13,770 as he almost certainly would be. 677 01:34:24,560 --> 01:34:28,210 There is absolutely no evidence of this. 678 01:34:28,245 --> 01:34:32,210 None of their claims of ostracism stood up to scrutiny. 679 01:34:34,980 --> 01:34:39,340 Including all of these shots about Communism and Nazism... 680 01:34:39,370 --> 01:34:44,270 is nothing but a Poisoning the Well fallacy. 681 01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:50,780 Sounds to me like we have that already, 682 01:34:50,820 --> 01:34:56,170 and you're fighting them! 683 01:35:44,570 --> 01:35:47,950 The more boldly and often someone makes a claim... 684 01:35:47,980 --> 01:35:52,930 the more suspicious you should be of it. 685 01:35:52,970 --> 01:35:56,870 So all of this pressing of the freedom issue... 686 01:35:56,910 --> 01:36:03,330 leads me to believe that they're just using it as a smokescreen. 687 01:36:21,820 --> 01:36:25,480 Martyr complex, anyone? 688 01:36:25,515 --> 01:36:29,070 Ask PZ Myers about hate email. 689 01:36:40,790 --> 01:36:42,780 Richard Dawkins on the movie: 690 01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:49,770 "The whole tone of the film is whiny, paranoid--pathetic really." 691 01:36:49,850 --> 01:36:53,940 "[This] film is positively barking with Lord Privy Seals. 692 01:36:53,980 --> 01:36:57,454 "We get an otherwise pointless cut to Nikita Krushchev hammering the table... 693 01:36:57,455 --> 01:36:59,620 "(to illustrate something like 'emotional outburst'). 694 01:36:59,650 --> 01:37:02,700 "There are similarly clunking and artless cuts to a guillotine, fist fights, 695 01:37:02,701 --> 01:37:05,750 and above all to the Berlin wall and Nazi gas chambers and concentration camps." 696 01:37:05,790 --> 01:37:10,610 "[T]here are two reasons why we need to take Darwinian natural selection seriously. 697 01:37:10,640 --> 01:37:15,800 "Firstly, it is the most important element in the explanation for our own existence and that of all life. 698 01:37:15,830 --> 01:37:20,240 "Secondly, natural selection is a good object lesson in how NOT to organize a society. 699 01:37:20,280 --> 01:37:26,910 "As I have often said before, as a scientist I am a passionate Darwinian. 700 01:37:26,950 --> 01:37:30,625 "But as a citizen and a human being, I want to construct a society... 701 01:37:30,626 --> 01:37:34,300 which is about as un-Darwinian as we can make it." 702 01:37:34,330 --> 01:37:38,690 --RichardDawkins.net, 23 March 2008 703 01:37:44,050 --> 01:37:47,430 Subtitles by Shane Killian 704 01:37:47,460 --> 01:37:50,880 See copyright notice at the front of these subtitles. 705 01:37:50,920 --> 01:37:57,120 www.Bogosity.TV